"The Stolen Accounts"

[Big Zeus]

Yeah yeah yeah…you might not see me very often; I hate to post around these crappy forums unless it’s necessary, but as of late there is a major issue involving Netjak and some other decent clans/players.

There has been someone stealing accounts and boosting them up to major numbers within less than a blink of an eye. I realized that when our account Doce from Great Lakes got stolen at around 1550 stats and amazingly went up to 1624 within less than a couple of days. There is evidence of that if you guys check the rankings before the last update.

Some of the victims are: Legacy of brutality, Smash through you (these belong to Detonation), The Arena, Cheese Steak, Doce and maybe more that I might be missing at the moment.

After a little investigation (mostly done by detonation) this is what we figured. All the accounts stolen were de-golded at a certain point. This person comes around pays for the accounts, golds them back and switches them all to †Simple Clever† clan. Don’t forget about the accounts passwords…he changes them too. But oh wait!! How can someone change a password without giving out the old one?? That’s a good question…but apparently whoever this bastard is can do it!!

This is unacceptable guys, The Arena, let’s talk about The Arena. I mean this guy worked his ass off to get to 1800+ stats!!! This was probably the first account that got stolen. He asked for help (mods involved) and no one listened, their answer was something like “I am sorry but that account is being paid by someone else, therefore it doesn’t belong to you any more”. Again how can someone pay and change an account’s password (old stats included) without knowing the old one?? And what is that crappy answer by someone who’s supposed to help the community??

The rest of the accounts end up with the same result, going to this †Simple Clever† noob clan and being boosted up to 1700+ numbers!! The funniest thing about all this is that their leader account (†sc† leader) who was not even ranked a couple of updates ago is now 1727!!

Baxy, Uni, Meaty…I know you guys for a long time…you know that I have no reason to be making up a story about something like this…maybe my evidence might not be 100% correct, but I know that there is something funny happening around here, and I hope you guys work for the best and help us out in this one…

I have nothing else to say but, I hope that we find a solution to this…It would be a shame to see TAO go down the drain just because of scammers and cheaters such as the ones we have now...

[XeqtR]

ZEUS,

Technically whoever pays for the gold account owns the account. I remember Uniq telling this first. So, if the person who owned the accounts stopped paying, I guess it is out there for anyone's grabs I think.

So, yes, it may not be ethical. But, there is no question of legality here. Is there?

[uniquinous]

There is a very simple solution for this: submit a gold ticket requesting deletion or stat reset if you wish it before putting the account back into the public domain. This should be investigated more, certainly, but the point isn't about the boosted stats. If someone is indeed on a boosting spree that much, it doesn't much matter if they start from 750 or 1400 - they're gonna get to whatever they want in a matter of time. No, this person is collecting trophies - names on reputation.

Ideally, the best solution would be to have a grey (or grace?) period where the owner can regold without anyone else taking the name. Unfortunately, the game coders didn't quite think that far ahead (which is not unreasonable).

As XeqtR said, it's not ethical, but technical the purchasing of other's degolded accounts is allowed (and well known in the community). While the situation is certainly undesirable, I don't see it as indicative of the community going down the drain, as you say. This type of thing is always going on - you're just noticing it now because of the relation of the people affected.

[Detonation]

Yes theres no problem on anyone paying for someone else's accounts, the main problem is this moron being able to change the passwords without knowing the old ones. If he couldn't change the passwords he wouldn't steal the god damn accounts. You actually need the old password to get a new one, so why is this moron changing the passwords without having the old ones? he wouldn't steal them if he couldn't change the passwords, and this problem can happen to anyone. Now theres only a few accounts that have been stolen, but it seems this cheating noob will be stealing every degolded account with good stats in great lakes.

[Big Zeus]

ZEUS,

Technically whoever pays for the gold account owns the account. I remember Uniq telling this first. So, if the person who owned the accounts stopped paying, I guess it is out there for anyone's grabs I think.

So, yes, it may not be ethical. But, there is no question of legality here. Is there?

I thought this was after they got wiped?? If you tell me that TAO allows me to wait for someone to forget paying his account, take that account by (stats included) paying for it, change his password without even knowing the old one and then claiming that it is my account just because the old owner was caught off base…I am sorry to say this but this game will suck

[Detonation]

Uniq, all the accounts that have been stolen weren't degolded on purpose, they were accidentally degolded, ART tried to regold the accounts the same day they were degolded, but this person had them upgraded already and the passwords were changed the next day. Same thing happened to the arena. None of us wanted our accounts deleted when they degolded.

[XeqtR]

Well, again technically, I think the owner of an account is entitled to the forgot password feature. Not just in TAO. It is a standard in just about everything you buy. I guess the law would stand by that too.

Like Uniq said, you have the option of requesting an account deletion if you don't want to pay for the account any more. However, TAO allows no grace period as such whence the owner can reclaim his account. That would be cumbersome and very time-consuming from the administrative point of view.

And, again, Zeus, like Uniq had mentioned, it had been happening for years. Why would the game suck because of that? The original owner should have been more careful right? Don't worry. Eventually he would get bored of all this and leave back all the accounts back on to the public domain. Until then, I am afraid, there is going to be no solution for this (problem?).

X

P.S.: Btw., what do you mean forgetting to pay for one's account? TAO works by subscription system right? So, unless one intentionally canceled the subscription, this cannot happen. And, when you are canceling the subscription, I think it is only right to let at least the admin know why you would be doing this or if you would ever want the account back.

[uniquinous]

I thought this was after they got wiped?? If you tell me that TAO allows me to wait for someone to forget paying his account, take that account by (stats included) paying for it, change his password without even knowing the old one and then claiming that it is my account just because the old owner was caught off base…I am sorry to say this but this game will suckWhy is this different than any other part of the world? You forget to pay your cable bill, your TV gets shut off. People don't get "caught off base" paying their health insurance bills, eh?

Uniq, all the accounts that have been stolen weren't degolded on purpose, they were accidentally degolded, ART tried to regold the accounts the same day they were degolded, but this person had them upgraded already and the passwords were changed the next day. Same thing happened to the arena. None of us wanted our accounts deleted when they degolded.Please explain to me how they weren't degolded on purpose. Was the owner unaware of the expiration date? Was he not using recurring payments? Did someone trick him into thinking it isn't a leap year?

As for the passwords, you can use the subscription number to retrieve or change the password for any account you own. I recommend your friends start by submitting gold tickets with their own older subscription number and the complaint. I'll notify serg, and hopefully we can get some things straightened out.

[Punishment]

Actually

you can request a password with a subscription.

[Big Zeus]

Uni you are right about the payment stuff, by bad. What I don´t understand is about the password thing...I still don´t think is fair...And you know what?? I am almost positive that Doce was never de-golded :S

[Jeffery]

The proper thing to do is simply send in tickets for this. This has happened, and been dealt with by tickets, in the past.

[uniquinous]

people like Deto, Rob, and Arena PAID for those accounts. No, they didn't pay for those accounts. That's the very reason they're in that mess in the first place. Why are you attacking XeqtR for providing accurate information to help out Zeus? Sure, you don't like it, but don't kill the messenger who's just trying to help - and please watch your language.

/neg rep for not using your brain.good thinking...

[Detonation]

No, they didn't pay for those accounts. That's the very reason they're in that mess in the first place. Why are you attacking XeqtR for providing accurate information to help out Zeus? Sure, you don't like it, but don't kill the messenger who's just trying to help - and please watch your language.

good thinking...

Yes, we did pay for them for a long time, specially Doce, that account has been in netjak for a really long time and alot of netjakers have raised the stats, which happens to be degolded for one day or two days, it doesn't give the right to this person to steal the damn account.

When i said they weren't degolded on purpose, i meant that none of the accounts were gonna let be wiped. Sometimes alot of people have problem with their paypal accounts or total their credit cards or people switch credit cards or make new paypal accounts so they have to cancel their accounts for a few days so that's when the accounts are degolded not with the purpose of getting them wiped or delete it. But then some douchebags like this guy take advantage of those problems.

[Jeffery]

Send a tricket to the support.

And I swear that 20+ topics on this forum need only one answer - send a goddamn ticket. :)

Send a ticket.

I HATE YOU ALL

Next time if something wrong you can just PM me to get it fixed faster :)

And my favorite:
Realist, what do you smoke? I wanna try it :D

[XeqtR]

Thanks Uniq.

A-99, Deto - As Uniq mentioned, you should have either kept your subscription going or requested an account delete with a ticket.

The only person Serg would recognize as the owner is the person who has the active subscription going for it. Yes, I did already mention it is not ethically correct to take an account in such a manner, but, there would be little logic, as far as the administration is concerned, to give the account to a person who was paying for it. How would they verify that the account had not been deleted and someone else meticulously raised the stats on that?

That being said, I think you should just submit a ticket to Serg to hear his version of the same explanation. :/

[Jeffery]

Thanks Uniq.

A-99, Deto - As Uniq mentioned, you should have either kept your subscription going or requested an account delete with a ticket.

The only person Serg would recognize as the owner is the person who has the active subscription going for it. Yes, I did already mention it is not ethically correct to take an account in such a manner, but, there would be little logic, as far as the administration is concerned, to give the account to a person who was paying for it. How would they verify that the account had not been deleted and someone else meticulously raised the stats on that?

That being said, I think you should just submit a ticket to Serg to hear his version of the same explanation. :/
You are wrong.

This case has come up before, and the rightful owner was given back control of the accounts.


Stop trying to guess what might happen, and maybe look at what has already happened.

[CRX687]

There is a very simple solution for this: submit a gold ticket requesting deletion or stat reset if you wish it before putting the account back into the public domain. This should be investigated more, certainly, but the point isn't about the boosted stats. If someone is indeed on a boosting spree that much, it doesn't much matter if they start from 750 or 1400 - they're gonna get to whatever they want in a matter of time. No, this person is collecting trophies - names on reputation.

Ideally, the best solution would be to have a grey (or grace?) period where the owner can regold without anyone else taking the name. Unfortunately, the game coders didn't quite think that far ahead (which is not unreasonable).

Didn't something like this happen to Warcow a while back? There should be a precedent as to what happens in such a case.
Oh yeah... http://tacticsarena.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29883


As XeqtR said, it's not ethical, but technical the purchasing of other's degolded accounts is allowed (and well known in the community). While the situation is certainly undesirable, I don't see it as indicative of the community going down the drain, as you say. This type of thing is always going on - you're just noticing it now because of the relation of the people affected.

It's strange, but your take on this seemed very different before.

It is a form of boosting, no?


I do agree that whoever pays for the account owns it. But whoever pays for a gold he/she never played with before should get a new gold... not one that starts at 1800 stats. If nothing else, banning the account for boosting would work, no?

[Specialist]

The proper thing to do is simply send in tickets for this. This has happened, and been dealt with by tickets, in the past.
I did exactly that and TAO's response was, "the old password does not match" therefore there is nothing we can do!

I upgraded both the accounts Smash through you and Legacy of Brutality,I had the new subscription #'s yet I can't change MY OWN password?!?

Left me no choice but to cancel them and I know that Detonation worked his ass off on those stats.

Sorry man. This is bullshit.

[XeqtR]

CRX,

If you notice in that thread Warcow did not get his account back through Serg. The 'benefactor' who wanted to preserve the account for a month gave it back.

And:
You can't ban the account because: 1. You do not know for certain that the similarity in names isn't a coincidence and 2. It has been established many times and stated explicitely by sergiy that whoever pays for the gold owns the account, no matter what, even if the person who pays for the gold didn't own the grey that he upgraded.
Jeffrey, could you give me some specifc examples? I am interested. :p

[bludhoundz]

I think part of the original system was that you should not be able to change the password if you didn't know it already. I don't see where this changed (asking within the tickets?), but I guess it did. This is the only real issue I see.

If they can't change the password because they don't know the original one, then all they are doing is paying for your account.

My only advice is to be a lot quieter about credit card problems / de- and re-golding. If they don't know, they can't nab the account. If you're degolding for good, you can also probably request a straight up deletion.

[R G]

Yeah yeah yeah…you might not see me very often; I hate to post around these crappy forums unless it’s necessary, but as of late there is a major issue involving Netjak and some other decent clans/players.

There has been someone stealing accounts and boosting them up to major numbers within less than a blink of an eye. I realized that when our account Doce from Great Lakes got stolen at around 1550 stats and amazingly went up to 1624 within less than a couple of days. There is evidence of that if you guys check the rankings before the last update.

Some of the victims are: Legacy of brutality, Smash through you (these belong to Detonation), The Arena, Cheese Steak, Doce and maybe more that I might be missing at the moment.

After a little investigation (mostly done by detonation) this is what we figured. All the accounts stolen were de-golded at a certain point. This person comes around pays for the accounts, golds them back and switches them all to †Simple Clever† clan. Don’t forget about the accounts passwords…he changes them too. But oh wait!! How can someone change a password without giving out the old one?? That’s a good question…but apparently whoever this bastard is can do it!!

This is unacceptable guys, The Arena, let’s talk about The Arena. I mean this guy worked his ass off to get to 1800+ stats!!! This was probably the first account that got stolen. He asked for help (mods involved) and no one listened, their answer was something like “I am sorry but that account is being paid by someone else, therefore it doesn’t belong to you any more”. Again how can someone pay and change an account’s password (old stats included) without knowing the old one?? And what is that crappy answer by someone who’s supposed to help the community??

The rest of the accounts end up with the same result, going to this †Simple Clever† noob clan and being boosted up to 1700+ numbers!! The funniest thing about all this is that their leader account (†sc† leader) who was not even ranked a couple of updates ago is now 1727!!

Baxy, Uni, Meaty…I know you guys for a long time…you know that I have no reason to be making up a story about something like this…maybe my evidence might not be 100% correct, but I know that there is something funny happening around here, and I hope you guys work for the best and help us out in this one…

I have nothing else to say but, I hope that we find a solution to this…It would be a shame to see TAO go down the drain just because of scammers and cheaters such as the ones we have now...

Sounds like this Simple Cleaver clan is....well cleaver. Who cares what their stats are and how high they boost their accounts? Just beat their ass in games and take their stats. The higher they are the more they have to lose.

It's kind of like not paying for your web domain name and someone else comes along and buys it since you neglected to renew it. Sure you built the name up, but you just forgot to pay to continue to use the name.

Boosting and cheating has been around since this game was invented. What makes you think that this incident is going to make TAO go down the drain?

[BaxVarlet]

You don't need the old password to change the password. This is because if you actually forget your password, you can use your subscription number to change it and then start using your account again. Of course it has the nasty side effect of allowing other's to pay for your recently greyed accounts and become the new "owners".

If sending in a gold ticket does not work without the current password (I must admit I've never sent in a gold ticket) then your best option would to PM serg this problem.

Sorry, Zeus.

[Big Zeus]

Dude seems like you don't get my point do you?? I don't care about the dam stats...I know I can beat them all and bring them down, my issue is that I want our account/s back! Is not fair the way in which they stole them...!!

Bludz…I didn’t even know our Doce account was de-golded, it is obvious that this kid is doing some research on what accounts the payments have been delayed due to problems/reasons such as the ones mentioned before…But we NEVER MEANT TO GET THOSE ACCOUNTS WIPED!!! You know that if I knew Doce went grey I would have paid myself for that…

Jeff I can’t send a ticket since I don’t even know who paid for Doce…but it seems like I am able to take it now since TAO isn’t fair…it just matters who pays and who’s got the money first!!

Let’s just say I will send a ticket now…what should I say??? Some freaking douchbag stole my account by the time I switched credit cards with paypal?? I mean this is ridiculous…

Thats why I wanted to hear Bax...THANK YOU...pretty much we got screwed by a cheater who is going to get away with this one...UNACCEPTABLE!!!

[uniquinous]

It's strange, but your take on this seemed very different before.I said nearly the exact same thing before:

This is just one of those things that needs to be looked at on a case by case basis, and in this case I'd say it's unfair and fraudulent of whoever did this, and action should be taken against them. Let sergiy know, maybe something will be done. What I said this time was "it's not ethical but allowed, submit a gold ticket and let serg know".

Dude seems like you don't get my point do you?? I don't care about the dam statsYes you do, else you wouldn't have mentioned them.

I want our account/s back! Is not fair the way in which they stole them...!!Zeus, it basically boils down to this. Someone was walking down the street with their favorite widget, and decided to put it down on the sidewalk. Upon returning the next day, they find their prized possession no longer there and exclaim "hey someone stole my widget! That's not fair!". Well, no, that's not quite how it works... Again, what you are experiencing is unfortunate, but you'll find it in every other part of life. If you neglect your bills, you lose things. If you neglect your belongings and leave them unattended in the public domain, someone is gonna walk by and pick them up.

Again, this is unfortunate, and you should look into re-acquiring it through gold tickets, but it is allowable, and you should have prepared a bit better if you didn't want to lose it.

[mantis33]

Yeah I don't understand why they can't be given back to the original owners when something like this is so obvious.

[Matrim]

well, im not totally sure about the policy here, but i know that on legends, seed said, too fucking bad.

the other cool thing is that after all the flaming from detonation about my multi accounts he went and did it too. kinda a little karmic payback going on here since honestly, deton should be able to hit 1400 in a week if he wanted. so unless the stolen accounts were like 1650 or something, no biggy.

[uniquinous]

seed never said anything. you're referring to the men behind the curtain

[Matrim]

haha well, thats quite possible.

[Detonation]

well, im not totally sure about the policy here, but i know that on legends, seed said, too fucking bad.

the other cool thing is that after all the flaming from detonation about my multi accounts he went and did it too. kinda a little karmic payback going on here since honestly, deton should be able to hit 1400 in a week if he wanted. so unless the stolen accounts were like 1650 or something, no biggy.

They were both 1600+. Also add just surrender now, he also stole the arena's secondary account when it was degolded.

[bludhoundz]

Well, the kid doing this is an asshole.

I'm not sure if there's anything to be done.. but it can be discussed and looked into.

[Big Zeus]

Uni again…I don’t care about the stats…I don’t care if they give me the account back at 750, as long as I get it back. I know I can reach to 1500+ with Doce in just a few days.

Someone was walking down the street with their favorite widget, and decided to put it down on the sidewalk. Upon returning the next day, they find their prized possession no longer there and exclaim "hey someone stole my widget! That's not fair!"

Are you serious Uni?? The association that you are making here is way far from what really is happening. Common bro you know that is not fair, if we meant those accounts (which is the same as putting down the widget) to get wiped then I wouldn’t be posting, but I never meant to “put my widget down”.

What happened is something more like…I dropped my widget down in the middle of a crowd and before I could even pick it up someone faster came and took it, claiming that it belongs to him now because I was not careful??

Please Uni…before you make those associations that 1st of all don’t make any sense try to help us out. You know that there is something fishy going on. I am not trying to argue with you my friend; I am just looking for your help since you are one of the guys in command.

Again, what you are experiencing is unfortunate, but you'll find it in every other part of life. If you neglect your bills, you lose things.

Yes you are right, but I also get the chance to pay again and get them back. If you forget to pay for the water they will take it away (just like your gold), but if you pay back…you get the water back right??

What I want you to help me with is just to get Doce back (forget about the stats)…and the other ones who got stolen to the other people…I hope that you/mods can back me up please…

[uniquinous]

as most of us have already said, we are trying to back you up. there seems to be a ton of accusation from this little group (and i'm not necessarily talking about you specifically, zeus) about how bad the mods are. I've gotten hate mail about how we are apparently abusing our power! Well I will ask you the same thing I asked that person: You who claims we need to "do something" - what is it you would like us to do? We have instructed you to submit gold tickets and wait a few days - have you done that yet? We have offered you advice on the rules, allowances, and precidence on matters like this, and we have written messages to the admins on your behalf. So again I ask: what more would you have us do?

But let's go back to your example, which is more accurate. You dropped something in a crowd because you neglected sewing up the hole in your own pocket. Nor did you check until, get this, the password was changed. Do you realize that it takes a few days to change a password? (Coincidentally, the same amount of time for serg to return to the gold tickets you've submitted regarding this issue.) So no, you didn't drop it and immediately try to pick it up again. You dropped the ball through the hole in your pocket, and didn't realize it till you saw someone else with a ball. Putting aside the fact that someone else came along and scooped it up (which is underhanded), take some responsibility for your own negligence as well.

In the meantime, we'll both work together to try and restore things.

I look forward to the answer to that big question above.

[Jeffery]

I look forward to the answer to that big question above.

Fruit Pie

[meat.eater]

What would you have us do, ZEUS? The vagueness of you saying "do something about it" isnt helping anyone. If you specifically ask me what you want me to do, I will either say 'yes,' 'I will look into it,' or 'no.'

If your request is "take away the accounts from the new [rightful] owner," the answer will be no. As much as it is unfortunate that you lost track of when you were paying for it and allowed them to de-gold, that is something that is the fault of the person responsible for the accounts, not the moderators. If you want to be mad about the unfairness of it all, be mad at your sponsor.

I would say the most likely scenario is that all the accounts will be reset, because the "new owner" does not own the amount of stats he received. But there is no way for us to give you back your accounts if you let them expire.

Other than that, the best I can do it attempt to look into who this "new owner" is, and try to work from there. If you have any other request, specifically, as to what you need us to do, please voice it.

Moral of the story: Pay for your own account, folks.

[Big Zeus]

as most of us have already said, we are trying to back you up. there seems to be a ton of accusation from this little group (and i'm not necessarily talking about you specifically, zeus) about how bad the mods are. I've gotten hate mail about how we are apparently abusing our power! Well I will ask you the same thing I asked that person: You who claims we need to "do something" - what is it you would like us to do? We have instructed you to submit gold tickets and wait a few days - have you done that yet? We have offered you advice on the rules, allowances, and precidence on matters like this, and we have written messages to the admins on your behalf. So again I ask: what more would you have us do?

But let's go back to your example, which is more accurate. You dropped something in a crowd because you neglected sewing up the hole in your own pocket. Nor did you check until, get this, the password was changed. Do you realize that it takes a few days to change a password? (Coincidentally, the same amount of time for serg to return to the gold tickets you've submitted regarding this issue.) So no, you didn't drop it and immediately try to pick it up again. You dropped the ball through the hole in your pocket, and didn't realize it till you saw someone else with a ball. Putting aside the fact that someone else came along and scooped it up (which is underhanded), take some responsibility for your own negligence as well.

In the meantime, we'll both work together to try and restore things.

I look forward to the answer to that big question above.

If you felt I was posting in an “accusation manner” my apologies. I meant to post (even though I know that you are not talking specifically about me) kinda looking for help, maybe a little frustrated. I have no complaints about Mods abusing because of their powers either. I will certainly try to send a “help ticket” but what would you suggest me to write in that ticket? I don’t even know who paid for Doce! I thank the mods if they actually wrote to the admins (note that I didn’t know about this) concerning this mess, and I hope that we can find some resolution to the problem.

…lol and back to the example…who said it was on my pocket?? It was a crowded place and I dropped it from my hands! :P

Fruit Pie

…and everybody wonders why Jeff has 26777 posts!! :P

[R G]

I think either we should get the FBI involved or Zeus should run tell his Mommy....Good GOD get over it.

[Big Zeus]

Smart post RG...smart post!!!

[meat.eater]

I think either we should get the FBI involved or Zeus should run tell his Mommy....Good GOD get over it.

Considering this doesnt concern you in the slightest bit, your comments are pretty annoying.

[R G]

ReEdited:::

I really don't give a flying intercourse....How's that? PS I edited my own words. I suggest you take a look at some of the other post around these forums...my post was tame compared to most.


Seriously everyone has told this guy to send in a ticket yet he continues to come on and sound like a little child who had his snicker bar stole.

[meat.eater]

I'd rather deal with a whining person who has some relevance or justification to his aggravation, than a bratty spectator, with no relevance, interjecting his pointless commentary. I at least get something accomplished with one of the two.

Swear again, and you can count on a nice break from even being allowed to give commentary at all.

ZEUS--please respond to my post above.

[Lord Shinok]

Since when we are allowed to cuss on this forums? I noticed some swearing in this thread. :P

Big Z, I doubt anything can be done about them accounts. Shit happens.

[The SOB]

Sounds like this Simple Cleaver clan is....well cleaver. Who cares what their stats are and how high they boost their accounts? Just beat their ass in games and take their stats. The higher they are the more they have to lose.



that's the porblem, the person/people on the account won't play on those stolen accounts, so there is no way to steal the stats

[Big Zeus]

What would you have us do, ZEUS? The vagueness of you saying "do something about it" isnt helping anyone. If you specifically ask me what you want me to do, I will either say 'yes,' 'I will look into it,' or 'no.'

If your request is "take away the accounts from the new [rightful] owner," the answer will be no. As much as it is unfortunate that you lost track of when you were paying for it and allowed them to de-gold, that is something that is the fault of the person responsible for the accounts, not the moderators. If you want to be mad about the unfairness of it all, be mad at your sponsor.

I would say the most likely scenario is that all the accounts will be reset, because the "new owner" does not own the amount of stats he received. But there is no way for us to give you back your accounts if you let them expire.

Other than that, the best I can do it attempt to look into who this "new owner" is, and try to work from there. If you have any other request, specifically, as to what you need us to do, please voice it.

Moral of the story: Pay for your own account, folks.

Ok Meaty…what do you suggest me to write down into that “help ticket”? I am like 95% sure that if those accounts end up being reset (stats) this kid will stop paying for them, don’t you think? The whole purpose of his evil plan is trying to take advantage of stats that he never gained in the first place. Maybe we found the key to gain back what it belongs to us right??

Im dumb so I swear.

Wow you are brilliant dude!! You certainly take hours to think what you post...

[R G]

I'd rather deal with a whining person who has some relevance or justification to his aggravation, than a bratty spectator, with no relevance, interjecting his pointless commentary. I at least get something accomplished with one of the two.

Swear again, and you can count on a nice break from even being allowed to give commentary at all.

ZEUS--please respond to my post above.

Then maybe he should have just dealt with you rather than the entire community, if he didn't want anyone else to respond. If you expect for no one to respond in the community you don't post stuff in a communty forum...It should have been dealth with via Private Messages or a help ticket.

PS I have reedited my previous post....


Since when we are allowed to cuss on this forums? I noticed some swearing in this thread. :P

Big Z, I doubt anything can be done about them accounts. Stuff happens.

Yep, I did. Thanks, boss.

[meat.eater]

Ok Meaty…what do you suggest me to write down into that “help ticket”? I am like 95% sure that if those accounts end up being reset (stats) this kid will stop paying for them, don’t you think? The whole purpose of his evil plan is trying to take advantage of stats that he never gained in the first place. Maybe we found the key to gain back what it belongs to us right??



Wow you are brilliant dude!! You certainly take hours to think what you post right??

You cannot say they belong to you because you allowed them to no longer belong to you. These accounts do not belong to you. Your players, however, earned the stats, which is why the logical repercussions would be to reset the accounts.

If you send a ticket with your current subscription number and explain that the accounts are no longer yours and have a new subscription number (he can check that), he will also see that the stats were not validly earned. I can assist with this by talking to serg personally if you'd like.

But, in the end, you are right. Sending a ticket will not get you back your accounts. We cannot and will not switch subscription numbers for specific accounts from their rightful owners. Perhaps if, as you assume, the "hijacker" does cease to sponsor the accounts after they are reset, we can keep a record of what your previous stats were and restore them when the account is back in the possession of the original subscription holder. This is best-case-scenario and I highly, highly doubt this would ever happen.

The most you can do, at this point, is prevent this new person from having your stats that your players earned.

I suggest you take a look at some of the other post around these forums...my post was tame compared to most.

I can only moderate what I see. I dont actively pursue profanity to correct it, but if I come across it, I will deal with it.

[uniquinous]

I'm sorry I know I read it before but I guess it didn't actually sink in. If you don't own Doce, and you further can't even tell who paid for it, you have no claim to that account. For all you know, the actual owner has just taken it back...

If all these accounts (or some) are sponsored, I can't help but offer my sympathy, but ultimately refer to meat eater: This is the very reason why we tell people to pay for their own accounts.

[Big Zeus]

You cannot say they belong to you because you allowed them to no longer belong to you. These accounts do not belong to you. Your players, however, earned the stats, which is why the logical repercussions would be to reset the accounts.

If you send a ticket with your current subscription number and explain that the accounts are no longer yours and have a new subscription number (he can check that), he will also see that the stats were not validly earned. I can assist with this by talking to serg personally if you'd like.

But, in the end, you are right. Sending a ticket will not get you back your accounts. We cannot and will not switch subscription numbers for specific accounts from their rightful owners. Perhaps if, as you assume, the "hijacker" does cease to sponsor the accounts after they are reset, we can keep a record of what your previous stats were and restore them when the account is back in the possession of the original subscription holder. This is best-case-scenario and I highly, highly doubt this would ever happen.

The most you can do, at this point, is prevent this new person from having your stats that your players earned.

I can only moderate what I see. I dont actively pursue profanity to correct it, but if I come across it, I will deal with it.

Ok fine they don’t’ belong to me right now. I’d appreciate if you assist me by talking to serg about those stats not being validly earned. I am almost positive that this “hijacker” will stop paying for them if they go back to 750. After that happens I will try to recup the name…its ok about the stats after…we can gain them back easily!!

Once again…thanks Meaty…

Then maybe he should have just dealt with you rather than the entire community, if he didn't want anyone else to respond.

I never said that I didn’t want anyone else to respond because I am not the only one involved in this mess. Some other cool players happened to be in the same situation…

[ben66]

Yeah yeah yeah…you might not see me very often; I hate to post around these crappy forums unless it’s necessary, but as of late there is a major issue involving Netjak and some other decent clans/players.

There has been someone stealing accounts and boosting them up to major numbers within less than a blink of an eye. I realized that when our account Doce from Great Lakes got stolen at around 1550 stats and amazingly went up to 1624 within less than a couple of days. There is evidence of that if you guys check the rankings before the last update.

Some of the victims are: Legacy of brutality, Smash through you (these belong to Detonation), The Arena, Cheese Steak, Doce and maybe more that I might be missing at the moment.

After a little investigation (mostly done by detonation) this is what we figured. All the accounts stolen were de-golded at a certain point. This person comes around pays for the accounts, golds them back and switches them all to †Simple Clever† clan. Don’t forget about the accounts passwords…he changes them too. But oh wait!! How can someone change a password without giving out the old one?? That’s a good question…but apparently whoever this bastard is can do it!!

This is unacceptable guys, The Arena, let’s talk about The Arena. I mean this guy worked his ass off to get to 1800+ stats!!! This was probably the first account that got stolen. He asked for help (mods involved) and no one listened, their answer was something like “I am sorry but that account is being paid by someone else, therefore it doesn’t belong to you any more”. Again how can someone pay and change an account’s password (old stats included) without knowing the old one?? And what is that crappy answer by someone who’s supposed to help the community??

The rest of the accounts end up with the same result, going to this †Simple Clever† noob clan and being boosted up to 1700+ numbers!! The funniest thing about all this is that their leader account (†sc† leader) who was not even ranked a couple of updates ago is now 1727!!

Baxy, Uni, Meaty…I know you guys for a long time…you know that I have no reason to be making up a story about something like this…maybe my evidence might not be 100% correct, but I know that there is something funny happening around here, and I hope you guys work for the best and help us out in this one…

I have nothing else to say but, I hope that we find a solution to this…It would be a shame to see TAO go down the drain just because of scammers and cheaters such as the ones we have now...

Looks like you learned a valuable lesson in life. Love no one, trust no one, and have eyes in the back of your head. GL has more problems than the middle east right now. Boosters, scammers are nothing new in TAO, you have just been made aware of it. Take this and build off of it. Realize that if you don't meet someone in person on a regular basis you damn sure can't trust them. Also, about the Arena's password being stolen. This is probably something TAO can fix. But if you sponsor anyone, regardless of what their password is, you can send in a sub code and easily get the password. It's probably something TAO should fix but it's wrong. If you for example make a grey and get it to let's say 1400. I decide to sponsor it. I can easily fill in a ticket say, "I forgot my pass" and get it and change the password and you would be defenseless. This rarely happens in TAO mainly because I doubt anyone is that far beneath the standard of morals around here. It's a shame Arena's account got hacked though, I liked that guy a lot. Just goes to show stats aren't everything, play your game. I don't think any less of Arena, even if his stats dropped to below 750.


Now about the mods. What they told you was right. They really can't intervene in this situation. If you don't have any s/s and Arena's account isn't paid for by him...your screwed. There is no upper intervention by the mods in this situation. I wouldn't count on them if something like this happened anyway, although people have been known to get deleted without any evidence before...

[uniquinous]

Zeus, follow me through a hypothetical, if you will.

Scenario A: Let's say a player named Noob sponsors and account and gives it to his Friend. If, after the Friend gets lots of stats, Noob takes back his account, do you feel Friend has a claim at reseting the stats?

Scenario B: Noob allows Friend to use his account for the express purpose of legitimately gaining stats, after which time all involved parties agree that Noob will be the only one using it. Would anyone have a claim to reset those stats?

Just wondering where you stand on those.

[R G]

I'm sorry I know I read it before but I guess it didn't actually sink in. If you don't own Doce, and you further can't even tell who paid for it, you have no claim to that account. For all you know, the actual owner has just taken it back...

If all these accounts (or some) are sponsored, I can't help but offer my sympathy, but ultimately refer to meat eater: This is the very reason why we tell people to pay for their own accounts.

Excellent points...Zeus says that this has effected lots of people yet we only hear about this from him....and it turns out that none of the accounts were ever paid for by him.

[Detonation]

Excellent points...Zeus says that this has effected lots of people yet we only hear about this from him....and it turns out that none of the accounts were ever paid for by him.

Can you not read? 2 of the accounts were mine, i've complained and backed up zeus post, the arena has also complained (just not in this thread) and tried to get his account back too. Stop being a reatard, you don't know what you're talking about. Specialist was paying for 2 accounts, as he said in the previous pages, he sumited a ticket whe he still had the sub #'s and the other person was paying for them already, which seemed like a mistake from TAO and they let both person upgraded both accounts, but specialist canceled them since that cheater had the passwords changed.

[XeqtR]

Maybe he has you on his ignore list. :p

[ben66]

Zeus, follow me through a hypothetical, if you will.

Scenario A: Let's say a player named Noob sponsors and account and gives it to his Friend. If, after the Friend gets lots of stats, Noob takes back his account, do you feel Friend has a claim at reseting the stats?

Scenario B: Noob allows Friend to use his account for the express purpose of legitimately gaining stats, after which time all involved parties agree that Noob will be the only one using it. Would anyone have a claim to reset those stats?

Just wondering where you stand on those.

I have some scenarios

Scenario A: Say a player named stupidass decides to get sponsored. He raises the account to about 1700. The player who sponsors it, named booster, decides to take it away from him. Well your screwed in every single way and there is nothing stupidass can do to stop booster from taking it.

Scenario B: Say your name is goodplayer. You've been working hard at TAO and your a 1400 grey. Someone sponsors you, without you asking. In 2 days your password has been changed because they used their subcode. You are once again screwed.

I always knew this would be exploited one day. TAO, here's some advice, how about you require a password to sponsor someone! It would help a lot. And also, when a player signs up, it might not be bad to have a main page account creation. There the player would be required to confirm their e-mail address. It would prevent account theft like in Scenarios A and B. If you don't fix it now the situation can only get worse from here. There is no morals or ethics in whoever is doing this, so if they aren't reprimanded here they won't stop at any lengths!

Also I read real closely. ZEUS, your a good guy, but it appears through this whole situation you individually remain unaffected. So why give a shit? None of this has a direct or indirect impact on your account or status at TAO. If this is truly a problem I agree, Arena or whoever needs to log their lazy ass on TAO and pm a mod about it. DOn't be their spokesperson, let them do it.

[uniquinous]

Scenario A: Say a player named stupidass decides to get sponsored. He raises the account to about 1700. The player who sponsors it, named booster, decides to take it away from him. Well your screwed in every single way and there is nothing stupidass can do to stop booster from taking it.Taking what? Their own account?

I always knew this would be exploited one day. TAO, here's some advice, how about you require a password to sponsor someone! It would prevent account theft like in Scenarios A and B.
You keep assuming that greys have rights. They don't. They're free accounts. In fact, they exist for the express purpose of pulling people into the game and tempting them to pay for it.

As meat has said, just as myself and every other mod in the past has said: do not rely on other people controlling your accounts. The vast majority of hijackings occur because of sponsorship in some way or another. It's no surprise to me that, low and behold, problems are arising because no one even knows who the owner of some of these accounts are. Cannibal is an odd story, and I'm hoping his belongings will return to him. Otherwise, the idea still stands: secure your own account with your own money and a difficult password, and don't share that password.

[shurtugal]

Send in a ticket and think bad thoughts to SC but he has been caught and will deal with the consiquences. You will get you're stats back. Tao should do an update to stop because basicly you have to pay for Tao the rest of your life to avoid this.

[shurtugal]

…and everybody wonders why Jeff has 26777 posts!! :P

holy you can have that many?

[Specialist]

Unfortunately I deleted TAO's answer out of rage but in so many words they said,"the account is not yours anymore so we cannot do anything". They wouldn't even consider resetting the account/s to 750 even though I have owned both of the accounts since November of 2007.



One would think that once you upgrade an account that the stats on the account would automatically reset if a "different" subscriber picked up the account. It would only be fair especially in a case like this.
Not only that but the account should remain yours until it gets wiped,or why not wipe them as soon as they degold.
TAO doesn't care,it's painfully obvious.It's just about money,pretty sad. To these people at the support desk,we are but a mere subscription #. There are no rights.

Both accounts were in the low 1600's, I don't see them in the game but somehow they have each gained roughly 27-30 points each in the last couple of days,so they're obviously boosting.

Unfortunately though, TAO won't do jack about it. Pretty pathetic.:bad::bad::bad::bad::bad::bad::bad::bad:: bad::bad:

[Detonation]

Mmm ya it sucks, but don't worry about it anymore man, i got the problem solved by myself :).

[ben66]

Mmm ya it sucks, but don't worry about it anymore man, i got the problem solved by myself :).

So we all would like to think...

[freakenature]

Okay. I have a similar question.

I was on the forums 2 days ago. I was reading a certain thread and then I posted. When I click new threads, it brought me to the sign-in scren again. From there, I went to sign-in with my rabbi account and password.(yeah, that's right. I'm rabbi). It wouldn't work. So i tried requesting a new password via e-mail. Where it then told me that the e-mail I have used wasn't recognized.

I don't understand because I have changed my password this way before. Any mod able to help me out, please?

[XeqtR]

Rob, btw., did you notice Lieutenant is in The Syndicate now?

[ben66]

Rob, btw., did you notice Lieutenant is in The Syndicate now?

He's been acting like a real noob lately...

[Maverik07]

He should just go to Army and re-make HA by himself.

[XeqtR]

Where will he find the Rob to sponsor all golds in the clan? :p

[freakenature]

Okay. I have a similar question.

I was on the forums 2 days ago. I was reading a certain thread and then I posted. When I click new threads, it brought me to the sign-in scren again. From there, I went to sign-in with my rabbi account and password.(yeah, that's right. I'm rabbi). It wouldn't work. So i tried requesting a new password via e-mail. Where it then told me that the e-mail I have used wasn't recognized.

I don't understand because I have changed my password this way before. Any mod able to help me out, please?

Someone answer me, please?

[Specialist]

Where will he find the Rob to sponsor all golds in the clan? :p
Lame.

[uniquinous]

it's painfully obvious.It's just about money,pretty sad. What?! I don't see where some of you are getting this. On what planet do you get off thinking this boils down to money when TAO gets the same amount of money regardless of who's paying for an account? It has nothing to do with "the money". It has to do with how the system has always been setup, and people being negligent of their own accounts. You are so quick to point fingers and blame others, when the source is really your own fault (despite the unfairness).

Both accounts were in the low 1600's, I don't see them in the game but somehow they have each gained roughly 27-30 points each in the last couple of days,so they're obviously boosting. 30 points in a couple of days is suddenly boosting? Any good players in control of such an account would be able to get that easily.

Okay. I have a similar question.

I was on the forums 2 days ago. I was reading a certain thread and then I posted. When I click new threads, it brought me to the sign-in scren again. From there, I went to sign-in with my rabbi account and password.(yeah, that's right. I'm rabbi). It wouldn't work. So i tried requesting a new password via e-mail. Where it then told me that the e-mail I have used wasn't recognized.

I don't understand because I have changed my password this way before. Any mod able to help me out, please?I answered you 2 days ago in game: you can't prove you're the person who set up that account. I even gave you the start of the e-mail address associated with the account, and you didn't recognize it. Even *IF* you did recognize it and put it in, you'd need access to that e-mail account to get the password information. If you can't prove ownership, you have no claim. If someone else got on your account somehow and magically changed your e-mail address and password, it boils down to the same old message displayed numerous times throughout this thread: own your accounts, create difficult passwords, and don't share them.

[Detonation]

30 points in a couple of days is suddenly boosting? Any good players in control of such an account would be able to get that easily.


Not true, even zeus admited he boosted the acc, I've seen this person boosting the accounts, doce was boosting from 1550 tp 1630 with the account name cheese steak and gray officer. He never play on any of the accounts anyways, he also boosted legacy of brutality from 1603 to 1626 with cheese steak as well. If he would be a good player he wouldn't be stealing the accounts. He obviously is stealing the accoounts to put them all in the same clan and rank whore to be #1 clan in great lakes. Also, I have enough s/s to get just surrender now for boosting. That's one of the stolen accounts.

[XeqtR]

Nice deto. You seem to be around whenever any boosting happens. Or is it just your outlook? :p

[shurtugal]

Originally quoted by cannibal corpse.
"Whenever boosters are around.. I'll be there"

[uniquinous]

Not true, even zeus admited he boosted the acc, I've seen this person boosting the accounts, doce was boosting from 1550 tp 1630 with the account name cheese steak and gray officer. He never play on any of the accounts anyways, he also boosted legacy of brutality from 1603 to 1626 with cheese steak as well. If he would be a good player he wouldn't be stealing the accounts. He obviously is stealing the accoounts to put them all in the same clan and rank whore to be #1 clan in great lakes. Also, I have enough s/s to get just surrender now for boosting. That's one of the stolen accounts.
hold on - there are two different issues here.

#1: Is it possible for a good player to gain 30 stats over the course of a few days on a 1600 account? Yes
Therefore, does a 1600 account gaining 30 stats over a few days inherently mean it was boosted? No.

#2: Were these accounts boosted? Well, you claim yes. Apparently everyone and their dog has been boosting these accounts. Please point out where Zeus claims to have boosts, and submit the s/s so we can take the appropriate action.

[*Sanosuke*]

I like how fast mods are to delete accounts but not as fast to fix them. An example in the bug thread with mav's situation.

[uniquinous]

whah? Can you please link me? There are several Bug threads. Besides, deletion is established. We don't "fix" boosting. Plus it's just more fun. Banz0r3d!

[Detonation]

hold on - there are two different issues here.

#1: Is it possible for a good player to gain 30 stats over the course of a few days on a 1600 account? Yes
Therefore, does a 1600 account gaining 30 stats over a few days inherently mean it was boosted? No.

#2: Were these accounts boosted? Well, you claim yes. Apparently everyone and their dog has been boosting these accounts. Please point out where Zeus claims to have boosts, and submit the s/s so we can take the appropriate action.

Yes a good player is able to gain 30 stats in a few days on a 1600 account with no problem, theres no doubt about that. But why would a 1600+ skilled player be stealing other people's accounts? if he would be a good player he would just upgrade any account and raise the stats himself.

As for zeus, sorry i didn't explained myself correctly, i meant zeus admited that the guy who stole the accounts has been boosting them. I'll Pm the s/s of the other account boosting, to a mod as soon as i upload them.

[BaxVarlet]

Yes a good player is able to gain 30 stats in a few days on a 1600 account with no problem, theres no doubt about that. But why would a 1600+ skilled player be stealing other people's accounts? if he would be a good player he would just upgrade any account and raise the stats himself.

As for zeus, sorry i didn't explained myself correctly, i meant zeus admited that the guy who stole the accounts has been boosting them. I'll Pm the s/s of the other account boosting, to a mod as soon as i upload them.

I wanna see! I wanna see! I won't be back online for a few hours but I'll deal with it then.

[*Sanosuke*]

whah? Can you please link me? There are several Bug threads. Besides, deletion is established. We don't "fix" boosting. Plus it's just more fun. Banz0r3d!


Here uniq. <3 http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34677

[uniquinous]

Yes a good player is able to gain 30 stats in a few days on a 1600 account with no problem, theres no doubt about that. But why would a 1600+ skilled player be stealing other people's accounts? if he would be a good player he would just upgrade any account and raise the stats himself.The problem is no one actually knows who the original owner of some of these accounts is. So, we don't know how much "stealing" is really involved. Also, stat whores abound - wouldn't surprise me if a good player stole a higher account and then played legit. Nonetheless, you have s/s - so point for you. :)

I wanna see! I wanna see! I won't be back online for a few hours but I'll deal with it then.wanna share?

[BaxVarlet]

wanna share?

No! Because I didn't get one.

[Unforgottner]

It was Cuathon!

[shurtugal]

so after proof is given that it was SC you say it was cuathon

[Jeffery]

It's because Cuathon is a bastard who would mastermind such a situation.

[*Sanosuke*]

Cuathon is smart...

[meat.eater]

Cuathon is smart...

Cuathon boosted for years because he said he could get away with it. He was still claiming he could get away with it when he got caught...

"Smart" is relative, I suppose.

PS- Dont have much sympathy for someone with the username Buck Fitches.

[Jeffery]

Cuathon boosted for years because he said he could get away with it. He was still claiming he could get away with it when he got caught...

"Smart" is relative, I suppose.

PS- Dont have much sympathy for someone with the username Buck Fitches.
But he MEANT to get caught. *wink wink, nudge nudge, saynomore*

[mantis33]

Lolzorz.

[Killing Unicorn]

whats funny is, you guys picked the wrong parts of my story to disbelieve.

also, i might have masterminded this if i hadnt been boosting, i pretty much left after that, till now.

[halolover5.]

Wait wait wait... im confused... whos this Killing Unicorn guy? Cuathon? Meh whatever

[Jeffery]

Shhhhhh. We're not saying who he is or isn;t. Keeps the mods off his arse.

[XeqtR]

lol, by banning him the mods are just letting him prove that he is unbannable. Ignoring is a much better strategy.

[uniquinous]

Anyone with a "stolen" account should PM me with the name and the old subscription number.

If you were sponsored or dont know who the owner is of the account you used, please just PM me with the name. I'm trying to get a full list to start going through.

[shurtugal]

you're my hero uniq :p

[Big Zeus]

Anyone with a "stolen" account should PM me with the name and the old subscription number.

If you were sponsored or dont know who the owner is of the account you used, please just PM me with the name. I'm trying to get a full list to start going through.

Thank you very much Uni...

Allstar is their latest victim by the way!! So you guys know...this is just getting ridiculous now!!

[Jeffery]

I hope they can compile the list enough to have serg check the email account being used. If these are all being re-passworded by the same account then there is a definite security issue on golding an e><isting unit.

One way to strengthen the security would be to require an email account on creation of new accounts, then at least know what email it was before you can gold it.....

[Big Zeus]

Right on Jeff!!

[shurtugal]

Did this happen to cheese steak as well?

[mantis33]

It happened to allstar, lol.

[shurtugal]

Yes but cheese steak was recently hacked and I'm wondering if he was hacked also.
If you look at the Highscores on GL, there is around 6 accounts in SC's clan up there.

[Mitosis]

and you don't think everyone has noticed it by now? Wow....

[shurtugal]

Well considering the fact that they're stats were killed and they're still up there

[*Sanosuke*]

you're my hero uniq :p

Shurtugal. You're the forum suck-up.

[Mitosis]

Shurtugal. You're the forum suck-up.

It doesn't do him any good does it? Maybe in school, but not here.

[shurtugal]

:rolleyes: Trust me you wouldn't say that if you were in same city as me.

Also Mito we are BOTH rambling like complete idiots. Let's stop and start Private messaging.

[Mitosis]

:rolleyes: Trust me you wouldn't say that if you were in same city as me.

Also Mito we are BOTH rambling like complete IDIOTS. Let's stop and start Private messaging.

Speak for yourself man ;)

[allstarGL]

I don't know how this could happen to me. My account has always been payed for by bills. Ever since he gave me my perma gold on gl. It has been going since 04, and I haven't had any problems. I have no subscription number for my account because techniqally no1 pays for it.

So how this happened is beyond me, i just really hope you mods can fix this shit. Cause this really sucks.

[Arena]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed yet, but how the hell did this guy take my forums account. :dry:

And for those who are wondering, yes, I'm the real Arena :p. Not that dumbshit hacker who ruined my career on TAO.

[Wisher]

OH MY GOSH It's arena. Sup.

[Big Zeus]

I don't know how this could happen to me. My account has always been payed for by bills. Ever since he gave me my perma gold on gl. It has been going since 04, and I haven't had any problems. I have no subscription number for my account because techniqally no1 pays for it.

So how this happened is beyond me, i just really hope you mods can fix this shit. Cause this really sucks.

Thats exactly what happened with Doce. Latest news were that Uni is trying to help us bro...lets just wait and see what happens... :S

[Arena]

Well that's good to hear. Maybe if I also get Silver Coast back, I may just resume my normal activity. It just ticks me off though, no one in power seemed to really care at the time until everyone else was affected by it..

[meat.eater]

So I had a rather long discussion as to what to do yesterday and we came to an agreement.

Unfortunately, due to the ownership contract of whoever is paying for the account, we cannot disrupt the "new owner's" accounts in any way. This is rather annoying, we both agree, so we came to a different conclusion.

To the people that lost accounts, we are offering a ONE TIME thing. In the next week or so, if you upgrade a new account we will restore your previous stats to you. (If you already have a new one, that will work fine also). This requires no extra money from your end, and we apologize for the inconvenience of about a month without your high ranked accounts.

To do this send a ticket USING THE SUBSCRIPTION NUMBER OF THE NEW ACCOUNT with the following:
1) Your old account's name and server.
2) Your old account's stats. Please be honest--keep in mind our moderators have a general idea of where these account's stats were when transferred and I will personally be checking all the accounts.
3) Your old account's SUBSCRIPTION NUMBER. This is the most important. Without this, nothing will happen. Not only this, but the subscription number must match the sub# of the previous account holder to that account. So, be sure you have the right sub#.
4) Include a short statement saying how your account was accidentally lost and taken over and how you wish to restore your stats to your new account. Say you were told to send this ticket by me (meat.eater, veritas).
5) Your new account's name and server.

This special ticket will only work for owners of the following accounts:
-The Arena
-legacy of brutality
-smash through you
-Doce
-Allstar

I will continue my dialog with serg and make sure these tickets go through. Unfortunately, whoever Simple Clever is will maintain their accounts by the ownership contract. This has happened in TAO in the past with the same result.

Once again, we apologize. This is the best solution available. Next time, please check to make sure you have sufficient funds to pay for accounts with so we can avoid this turmoil in the future.

Thanks,
meaty

[allstarGL]

I have never paid for the game. My gold account was free. What am I supposed to do, I don't have a subscription number. Bills made my account and told me it would be a lifetime free account.

[Cliche]

I have never paid for the game. My gold account was free. What am I supposed to do, I don't have a subscription number. Bills made my account and told me it would be a lifetime free account.

It's true, Meat!

[shurtugal]

Thats gotta suck

[mantis33]

So now we're gonna have a shitload of high accounts on GL? Lame!

[R G]

Wonder how many people who read this are trying to decide who they want to pretend to be?

I can just see them saying "who do I want to pretend to be?"
-The Arena
-legacy of brutality
-smash through you
-Doce
-Allstar

I'd pick Allstar since he has no subcription number....

I can't believe TAO caved in. If any of these players are as good as they say they are they could rape other peoples stats and be right back to where they were. If I were management I would have given them 2 or three free months for their inconvience and been done with it....but I guess it's easier to give up stats than $10 or $15 dollars.

And Where's my free Gold account???

[meat.eater]

I have never paid for the game. My gold account was free. What am I supposed to do, I don't have a subscription number. Bills made my account and told me it would be a lifetime free account.

There is no record or memory of doing this. Are you sure somebody wasnt sponsoring you?

[allstarGL]

I'm positive. I'm sure there are some people that can remember this.... I looked too though, and I couldnt find any record of it on these forums. But thats probably because I never used the forums when bills gave me the gold account. I sent the screenshots to him with my parents email account at the time. Then my screenshot went up on the front page and my lifetime free gl account started.The only record I would have of it might be on my parents email account where I was talking to bills directly so he could give me the allstar account. But i can't find that either. i'm sure it's been deleted by now. Also they changed the layout for the front page so my picture's not even there anymore, nor do i have the picture cause I took it like 4 years ago. It's been long deleted. I've had my allstar account since 04 but never went on forums till 05. Also I lost my account before, when gl went all messed up a while back. And serge got it back for me and it kept paying for itself... I mean doesnt the game have records of this stuff or anything? Can't you look to see who was paying for it or anything? If you did you'd see it wasn't a sponser.

I'm just a little upset because I'm losing one of the coolest things you can have on this game. I can still use rev, but I've been playing on legends lately... i mean damn I've really stooped :p

[Zander]

Wonder how many people who read this are trying to decide who they want to pretend to be?

I can just see them saying "who do I want to pretend to be?"
-The Arena
-legacy of brutality
-smash through you
-Doce
-Allstar

I'd pick Allstar since he has no subcription number....

I can't believe TAO caved in. If any of these players are as good as they say they are they could rape other peoples stats and be right back to where they were. If I were management I would have given them 2 or three free months for their inconvience and been done with it....but I guess it's easier to give up stats than $10 or $15 dollars.

And Where's my free Gold account???
That's why you need the sub # of the previous account, jackass. "This is most important."

[allstarGL]

So am I just fucked here or what? Nobody is getting back to me with any info? This guy just get to keep my account and my stats?

[R G]

That's why you need the sub # of the previous account, jackass. "This is most important."

Well if you haven't ever paid for it then how would you have a subscription number???

Answer: You wouldn't....and that was my point.

Thanks for playing though. ;)

[Merdoc.]

The proper thing to do is simply send in tickets for this. This has happened, and been dealt with by tickets, in the past.

Yeah, mods can't do anything.

He went through the administration, and you need to do the same action.

[meat.eater]

Well if you haven't ever paid for it then how would you have a subscription number???

Answer: You wouldn't....and that was my point.

Thanks for playing though. ;)

No, the logical thing would probably be to talk to the sponsor (who knows about the situation) and hive him PM you the sub# and/or do it himself.... I'ts not rocket science.

Allstar, there isnt much I, personally, can do at the time. I cant advocate for a free account for you on your behalf because I honestly have no idea what that situation is. If you PM serg he will at least listen to and validate your claims, and may act on them. I cannot do anything however, and he cannot do anything with the ticket system without the subscription number. And as the ownership policy states, the owner of the account is the owner of the account.

My guess is that the big risk of you having a free GL account is that it wasnt recorded under a subscription number so any subscription number could take it over. The paying system basically works on any account with no subscription. So it does kind of suck, but we cannot violate ownership contract. We would be sued.

Like I said, the lesson in this is: If you really want to secure your account, you should be the one paying for it.

[Jeffery]

No, the logical thing would probably be to talk to the sponsor (who knows about the situation) and hive him PM you the sub# and/or do it himself.... I'ts not rocket science.

Allstar, there isnt much I, personally, can do at the time. I cant advocate for a free account for you on your behalf because I honestly have no idea what that situation is. If you PM serg he will at least listen to and validate your claims, and may act on them. I cannot do anything however, and he cannot do anything with the ticket system without the subscription number. And as the ownership policy states, the owner of the account is the owner of the account.

My guess is that the big risk of you having a free GL account is that it wasnt recorded under a subscription number so any subscription number could take it over. The paying system basically works on any account with no subscription. So it does kind of suck, but we cannot violate ownership contract. We would be sued.

Like I said, the lesson in this is: If you really want to secure your account, you should be the one paying for it.
Bullshit.


4. Your Use of Tactics Arena Online.
...
(vii) harass, threaten, stalk, embarrass, or cause distress, unwanted attention or discomfort upon another user of Tactics Arena Online or other person or entity;
...
(ix) carry out any action with a disruptive effect,
...
B. In the event that you violate any of the foregoing provisions, TAO Gaming, Inc may at its option and without notice to you, as well you will forego your payment for that term regardless of how much time is left on the term. TAO Gaming reserves the right to: (i) temporarily suspended your access to Tactics Arena Online; or (ii) immediately terminate your access to Tactics Arena Online; and

This person has harrassed multiple PAYING members of the game by hijacking their account.
His actions have disrupted the game enough that members are no longer able to play.

That being such TAO has the legal right to terminate his access to the accounts, regaining them to the true owners. He has zero right to sue because his actions violate the TOS, as well as can be considered scamming.

The sad message here is that it appears like TAO doesn;t care about the customers, just the cash. I mean, if someone steals an account, and that forces the true owner to create a new account, then TAO makes twice the money. What a business plan! This guy could help double business, which is obviously slowing down due to game neglect.

[meat.eater]

Bullshit.



This person has harrassed multiple PAYING members of the game by hijacking their account.
His actions have disrupted the game enough that members are no longer able to play.

That being such TAO has the legal right to terminate his access to the accounts, regaining them to the true owners. He has zero right to sue because his actions violate the TOS, as well as can be considered scamming.

The sad message here is that it appears like TAO doesn;t care about the customers, just the cash. I mean, if someone steals an account, and that forces the true owner to create a new account, then TAO makes twice the money. What a business plan! This guy could help double business, which is obviously slowing down due to game neglect.

The paying members who lost their accounts discontinued their accounts by their own accord. That is not the responsibility of TAO, nor has this person harassed anyone's natural rights of payment (he's just kind of being an ass). Allstar was not a paying member, there is no way for us to prove true ownership of the account, there is no way for us to even know if his account was simply accidentally not degolded (which has happened multiple times), because there doesnt seem to even be record of bills giving him this gold.

You use statements like "paying members" and "true owners." Neither of these statements can be proved in allstar's case. For everyone else, the subscription numbers will be of benefit to them--in a situation where TAO is obligated to do absolutely nothing, we are offering this. Like I said, allstar's situation is extremely unfortunate. It is, perhaps, a loophole in the system. Fortunately, not many people have free server golds, so this does not happen. But like I said, this ultimately boils down to paying for your own account to secure it.

[Jeffery]

An Admin gave him the account. There is nothign to prove for ownership, since TAO itself would have then been the "legal owner" if you want to nitpick that line.

Accounts that were being paid for were hijacked. Just because AT SOME TIME IN THWE PAST there was a lapse in payment, which was then re-upped by the legitimate person, does not give a scammer the right to steal the account.

This is the same as when someone was making a like-named account on another server, upgrading it, then hijacking the Rev account by the same name.


You want to split hairs here, trying to play the legal angle. But you have failed, especially when it comes to an account created and upgraded specifically for Allstar by the administration of the game. In his case there would NEVER have been a time for it to "degold" as there was no time when it should have gone grey.

The fact that you will sit here and back someone who has sc ammed others accouts shows you what is more important aroudn here. Money.
You would rather take his money, and force others to then upgrade a seperate account than to simply stand up for your customers and do what is right.

And yes, those who have had their accoutns stolen are customers. Most have spent quite a lot of money on TAO. And it's sad to watch you guys sit here and scam more out of them.

Personally, I would suggest each and every member who has had an account stolen in this manner to refer it to the BBB both here and in Canada. Sure, it accomplishes nothing, but perhaps if the admins start egtting letters and emails from official agencies they might wake up and get off their asses for once.

[meat.eater]

An Admin gave him the account. There is nothign to prove for ownership, since TAO itself would have then been the "legal owner" if you want to nitpick that line.

Accounts that were being paid for were hijacked. Just because AT SOME TIME IN THWE PAST there was a lapse in payment, which was then re-upped by the legitimate person, does not give a scammer the right to steal the account.

This is the same as when someone was making a like-named account on another server, upgrading it, then hijacking the Rev account by the same name.


You want to split hairs here, trying to play the legal angle. But you have failed, especially when it comes to an account created and upgraded specifically for Allstar by the administration of the game. In his case there would NEVER have been a time for it to "degold" as there was no time when it should have gone grey.

The fact that you will sit here and back someone who has sc ammed others accouts shows you what is more important aroudn here. Money.
You would rather take his money, and force others to then upgrade a seperate account than to simply stand up for your customers and do what is right.

And yes, those who have had their accoutns stolen are customers. Most have spent quite a lot of money on TAO. And it's sad to watch you guys sit here and scam more out of them.

Personally, I would suggest each and every member who has had an account stolen in this manner to refer it to the BBB both here and in Canada. Sure, it accomplishes nothing, but perhaps if the admins start egtting letters and emails from official agencies they might wake up and get off their asses for once.

Lol?

You're making this into a huge deal and missing the entire point.

You keep referring to me but I have little to nothing to do with this entire situation. The only thing I have done is advocated for allowing some members who's accounts were not hijacked but who simply lost payments toward them, to regain previous stats. That is generous. There is no reason for serg to do that other than customer service.

The players in question do not own those account names anymore. We searched our records and there was no foul play involved. Many of the accounts were being paid for by the same person, who allowed them to expire, and they were picked up by someone else within a day. It sucks, yes, but ultimately the person to blame is the subscriber, not the host. If you dont pay for a car, it gets taken away. That is how the system has worked since you have been here, Jeffery.

Allstar's account is the only exception to this. His account never had a subscription number, never had documented proof of anything. I'm not going to A) advocate for the removal of an account with documentation for an person who has none or B) Insinuate any free account was given when I have heard nothing about it. Look, from my perspective, you story makes sense, but there is nothing I can do about it. Serg, who runs the ticket system, not me, is community blind. To him, a ticket in allstar's situation will look exactly like an ever-so-common scam of a person who has never owned an account claiming to have had it hacked and changed from them (they assuming that we dont have subscription number databases). When we look to see if there's a sub# and see there is none, we know they are lying. Allstar looks exactly the same through the ticket system and there is no way to prove anything. And if we act upon something without documentation of it, against someone who has documentation... we will be sued and we will lose. Word of mouth, screenshots and forum posts, though valid for argumentation within the community, are not viable legal documentation. If serg granted this for allstar, what's he going to do when some random nub claims to have previous ownership of "BobsYourUncle", the newly golded account with no previous sub#?

TAO is not responsible for being legal owners of user accounts besides moderator accounts. It is responsible for being hosts. In essence, Allstar was given a ghost. He was given a name, a place to play on. He was not given an "account." Think of it as him being able to play for free for... what... 4 years? Rather than something that was taken away from him. Because legally, nothing was taken away from him.

It is a business, Jeffery. Yes, some of this is about money, exchanging goods a services. Everyone knows that; it's not a bad thing. It is what allows us to keep providing goods to you. We cannot put ourselves in a financially stupid situation by violating the ownership contract. End of discussion.

If you really want Allstar to have an account, buy him one and keep it secure. If you do this, I will talk to serg about putting the stats for Allstar on the new account, and you'll have to hope he trusts what I'm telling him. I can tell you now, the outcome of that is probably doubtful. But we cannot "take back" the accounts.

[Jeffery]

Lol?

You're making this into a huge deal and missing the entire point.

You keep referring to me but I have little to nothing to do with this entire situation. The only thing I have done is advocated for allowing some members who's accounts were not hijacked but who simply lost payments toward them, to regain previous stats. That is generous. There is no reason for serg to do that other than customer service.

The players in question do not own those account names anymore. We searched our records and there was no foul play involved. Many of the accounts were being paid for by the same person, who allowed them to expire, and they were picked up by someone else within a day. It sucks, yes, but ultimately the person to blame is the subscriber, not the host. If you dont pay for a car, it gets taken away. That is how the system has worked since you have been here, Jeffery.

Allstar's account is the only exception to this. His account never had a subscription number, never had documented proof of anything. I'm not going to A) advocate for the removal of an account with documentation for an person who has none or B) Insinuate any free account was given when I have heard nothing about it. Look, from my perspective, you story makes sense, but there is nothing I can do about it. Serg, who runs the ticket system, not me, is community blind. To him, a ticket in allstar's situation will look exactly like an ever-so-common scam of a person who has never owned an account claiming to have had it hacked and changed from them (they assuming that we dont have subscription number databases). When we look to see if there's a sub# and see there is none, we know they are lying. Allstar looks exactly the same through the ticket system and there is no way to prove anything. And if we act upon something without documentation of it, against someone who has documentation... we will be sued and we will lose. Word of mouth, screenshots and forum posts, though valid for argumentation within the community, are not viable legal documentation. If serg granted this for allstar, what's he going to do when some random nub claims to have previous ownership of "BobsYourUncle", the newly golded account with no previous sub#?

TAO is not responsible for being legal owners of user accounts besides moderator accounts. It is responsible for being hosts. In essence, Allstar was given a ghost. He was given a name, a place to play on. He was not given an "account." Think of it as him being able to play for free for... what... 4 years? Rather than something that was taken away from him. Because legally, nothing was taken away from him.

It is a business, Jeffery. Yes, some of this is about money, exchanging goods a services. Everyone knows that; it's not a bad thing. It is what allows us to keep providing goods to you. We cannot put ourselves in a financially stupid situation by violating the ownership contract. End of discussion.

If you really want Allstar to have an account, buy him one and keep it secure. If you do this, I will talk to serg about putting the stats for Allstar on the new account, and you'll have to hope he trusts what I'm telling him. I can tell you now, the outcome of that is probably doubtful. But we cannot "take back" the accounts.

Gee, you mean like when Serg gave Allstar his permagold account?? Don't knwo whats going on?? Then why step in and say you are the one to talk to???
Gosh, must be nice to pretend to be as stupid as you are trying to be. You know damn well what the proper thing is here. If you are going to step up and try and be the big man, then back your words up. Don;t back pedal and run away as soon as things get going. Either you can handle the situation, or you can;t. If you can;t then I suggest you not overstep your abilities net time.

[allstarGL]

This is ridiculous! The guy stole my account and you are basically saying he is legally right here. I just can't understand how this possibly makes any sense.

I can't believe you guys can do nothing to help me. I pm'd mith when I first found out about it and he said he would look into it and get back to me. I assumed you would take this issue to the mod lounge and hopefully discuss it and help me. I never even got a reply back though, I had to come to this thread and plead for help.

Have you even talked to serg about this?

I pm'd him now but I don't want him just ignoring my pm because he thinks im some random noob.

This really sucks, and I would have liked to think you mods would have done a little more to help me.

There is no way I should lose my account because of this. No way, some guy should just get to have a 1700 account to start. Isn't that messed up enough for you guys to do something?

[meat.eater]

Everything I have said here has been a product of me speaking to the administration. Like I said, if it were up to me, a member not community-blind, things perhaps would be different.

EDIT:
Spoke to serg again and bills this time. Fortunately, bills remembers giving it out. The account's password will be changed and given back to you. Please look in your PM box for more info. There is nothing in place that will prevent this from happening again. I would recommend you get someone or yourself to pay for it to secure it.

[Jeffery]

Everything I have said here has been a product of me speaking to the administration. Like I said, if it were up to me, a member not community-blind, things perhaps would be different.

EDIT:
Spoke to serg again and bills this time. Fortunately, bills remembers giving it out. The account's password will be changed and given back to you. Please look in your PM box for more info. There is nothing in place that will prevent this from happening again. I would recommend you get someone or yourself to pay for it to secure it.
Thank you for talking to both.

[meat.eater]

Another new development for the rest of you.

We'll be taking different action. I have no idea if serg changed his mind or if bills may have decided for this, but I think you'll be happy. As of right now, all of the "Stolen Accounts" have been locked. This means they belong to nobody. If you want your account, specifically, back, send a ticket using it's old sub#, it's old password, and it's previous stats, and a new password to change it to. Allstar, I will talk to serg again at some point and see what the deal is with you, I think, however, you are settling it with him via PM's.

I apologize for the means of action continually shifting, but dont shoot the messenger! >_<
On the bright side, this is good news for those fo you involved. We cannot do anything without tickets, however. And the lesson for the future still remains: keep your accounts secure.

I guess it was determined after much deliberation that this could be considered TOS violation. Not by ownership contract but... well... I dont really know why but it was decided that way. SC Leader has been deleted, and to ensure the accounts go back to rightful owners, they are available to do so.

[Jack Daniels]

Uni you are right about the payment stuff, by bad. What I don´t understand is about the password thing...I still don´t think is fair...And you know what?? I am almost positive that Doce was never de-golded :S

this is the last post i read on this thread cause i have to go so please dont neg me if i missed something, lol. If your like alot of people i know you upgrade your account, get the sub#, and cancle the subscription and wait for it to go grey to upgrade again. What the deal here is once you cancle the subscription, even if the account is still gold, i believe you can start a new subscription. Although i am not 100% sure on this they should make something so you cant subscribe an account unless it is grey, just a thought.

[Jeffery]

Another new development for the rest of you.

We'll be taking different action. I have no idea if serg changed his mind or if bills may have decided for this, but I think you'll be happy. As of right now, all of the "Stolen Accounts" have been locked. This means they belong to nobody. If you want your account, specifically, back, send a ticket using it's old sub#, it's old password, and it's previous stats, and a new password to change it to. Allstar, I will talk to serg again at some point and see what the deal is with you, I think, however, you are settling it with him via PM's.

I apologize for the means of action continually shifting, but dont shoot the messenger! >_<
On the bright side, this is good news for those fo you involved. We cannot do anything without tickets, however. And the lesson for the future still remains: keep your accounts secure.

I guess it was determined after much deliberation that this could be considered TOS violation. Not by ownership contract but... well... I dont really know why but it was decided that way. SC Leader has been deleted, and to ensure the accounts go back to rightful owners, they are available to do so.
Wow.....

And I didn;t even have to call Bills this time...

[A-99]

BUMP

Anyone notice how SC is gone? The entire clan has vanished. YAY! :)

[meat.eater]

Do you read? Slash--2 hours isnt much of a bump.

[A-99]

PFft go away grouchy :P

[Lieutenant]

A-99 is right, SC Leader has ceased to exist. Perhaps everyone should go back in peace. Arena takes back his 2 accounts, HA their 2 accounts, and NJ takes their 2 accounts too.

Note that if you receive Doce, I am going to ask you guys to de-boost Doce, since Gray Officer got it up to 1624 by boosting it.

[Big Zeus]

Will do Lieu..Doce stats were 1545 before all this mess happened...

[uniquinous]

Wow, lotsa big huffy dumbasses in this thread. While there is some resolution, I can't help but remind some of you of a few things:

1) Mods get no money. Stop claiming our actions are based on the money.
2) TAO gets no *more* money if someone else owns an account. Whether one noob or one sneaky asshat owns the account, TAO gets the same $5. Stop claiming TAO's actions are based on the money.
3) Own your account. Don't rely on handouts or freebees, be it from "sponsors" or TAO itself. Beggers can be choosers, but no one will actually listen.
4) There's nothing stopping anyone from just buying Allstar's account again, which brings us back to point #3.
5) Do not blame the mods when some third party person stopped paying for an account. Blame the third party.
6) If you still don't like the mod actions, insulting us doesn't help your cause.
7) Do not use ignorance as a means of demanding your own form of "justice". Even if you don't know about the rules, they still apply to you.
10) We don't need no stinking 8 or 9.

[Jeffery]

Wow, lotsa big huffy dumbasses in this thread. While there is some resolution, I can't help but remind some of you of a few things:

1) Mods get no money. Stop claiming our actions are based on the money.
2) TAO gets no *more* money if someone else owns an account. Whether one noob or one sneaky asshat owns the account, TAO gets the same $5. Stop claiming TAO's actions are based on the money.
3) Own your account. Don't rely on handouts or freebees, be it from "sponsors" or TAO itself. Beggers can be choosers, but no one will actually listen.
4) There's nothing stopping anyone from just buying Allstar's account again, which brings us back to point #3.
5) Do not blame the mods when some third party person stopped paying for an account. Blame the third party.
6) If you still don't like the mod actions, insulting us doesn't help your cause.
7) Do not use ignorance as a means of demanding your own form of "justice". Even if you don't know about the rules, they still apply to you.
10) We don't need no stinking 8 or 9.
1) Mods are not "TAO", when refering to TAO making money
2) Accoutn A exists, and is paid for at the sum of $5 a month. It is stolen by player B. TAOs original solutution was for Player A to upgrade a second account, and have the stats set to Account A's previous. Now you have 2 accounts being paid for. Hense double the money.
3) Agreed.
4) Except that each and every single account is manually upgraded by an admin. So if the admin simply uses the slightest bit of discretion..... No problem.
5) But do blame the mods when they step in and act like they know what they are talking about.
6) Not my cause. So insulting you dumbasses doesn;t hurt me a bit.
7) We'll leave all the ignorance to you mods. Since you are so good at it,
11) Nothing good comes in 10's either.

[Big Zeus]

Nice Jeff Nice!!