Swear Filter Mods Please Read PG-13

[Shuichi]

PG-13 Rating. You have been warned.



































Now, honestly I will admit that the swear filter was a nice idea, because of the young'ns that play, as well as people at work who play where certain words are not appropriate. But let's get real; there are some serious problems with the current system in place.

Examine the following INCOMPLETE lists first:

Allowed curse words:

Shit
Ass
Damn

Blocked curse words:

Fuck
Bitch

Now, don't you think that if we are going to have a curse filter, that it should allow or block all and not just some?


More allowed words:

Bastard
Vagina
Whore
Hoe
Lesbian

Blocked words:

Penis
Gay
Homosexual
Sex

Overall I hate the filter the way it is set up. But in the last 2 lists are where I have the biggest problem. C'mon, where is the sense in this. Vagina is allowed, yet Penis isn't? Lesbian is allowed, yet Gay and Homosexual aren't? Sex isn't allowed? Sex is a term in school books, and a term commonly used to find out if someone is male or female. I say it is ridiculous. Anyone who plays this game is VERY well aware, of what the questionable meaning of sex is. Hell you see people having sex on day time T.V. all the time. All or nothing. If someone wants to tell someone they are Gay, why should they be forced to type it out g-a-y or some other variation <Example people I'm not here to discuss my sexuality in anyway>.

Also, WHY DOES IT BOOT YOU FROM THE SERVER? This is so ridiculous. Why can't you just have it replace the "curses" with **** or $$$$ or you get the point. Don't tell me it would take to much code, hell open the source up to me, and I will code it myself, for free. I just lost 34 points, because I jokingly told one of my friends that my furgon's penis was bigger than his. How many times am I going to have to get disconnected because of random NON CURSE words in the filter?

Please change it. The current system is just lacking, and I am sure many would agree. I am all for a swear filter, but it needs to be (#@)#, as well as non discriminate. And, if you even get some time, make it so we can turn it off and on. I like to see curse words. I am 20 years old, a big advocate of free speech, and feel that some times, a curse word is the only way you can convey your true feelings. ESPECIALY in text based communication.

Please don't just blow this over, or let this die. There seriously needs to be some changes made to this filter.

As a paying gold member this is my only request thus far.

Please add comments and questions as you see fit ^^.

[Ri'Orius]

Well, "ass" has to be allowed to keep the filter from kicking people off for innocent things, like "assassin" or "assume". "Gay" is most often used derogatorilly ("Man, that Pyro block was so gay!"), and the administration has deemed that inappropriate. Furthermore, in the opinion of the administration, your sexuality is not something that needs to be discussed in this game (and I, personally, agree wholeheartedly to this sentiment), so it's not worth letting people use it derogatorilly so that people can discuss something the administration has deemed not suitable for the game.

"Homosexual" is not allowed because "sex" is not allowed (the filter looks for substrings, so "bitchy", while not programmed in as a filtered word, will be caught because it contains "bitch"). "Sex" is not allowed because the original use for this filter was to keep out people who liked to cyber in-game; this is also why "penis" is blocked. I don't know why "vagina" isn't, though...

The "replace it with asterisks" suggestion has been shot down repeatedly by the administration. They aren't looking to keep swear words of the servers, they're looking to keep swearers off the servers. They are taking a stand against inappropriate language by giving it a more severe penalty than most games do. And, while they may lose business, this is more of a personal ethics decision than a business decision, if'n I'm not mistaken.

Finally, the next time you wish to make a big discussion like this, do a quick search (http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/search.php?s=) on the forum archives, first. Most of those very same points were raised, and shot down, back in December/January when the filter was put in place.

[Shuichi]

I realize that this isn't a new topic. New threads create more traffic, and I disagree with you and the mods.

I never stated my sexuality here; I was just using an example.

I gave 2 suggestions here and never asked for the filter to be taken off. It needs more work, because of the discrepancies I’ve listed here, and I would LIKE to see asterisks instead of server kicks as well as an on/off option for the filter. Those are not unreasonable requests, and I am sure many would agree.

As for whether Gay is used derogatory or not, that is just plain ridiculous. OMG YOUR SO STUPIDD!!@~~ is just as bad as OMG YOUR SO GAY HAHAH!~~, and only Jr.Highers with a fragile self esteem would be hurt by such a pathetic insult.

Finally, the next time you wish to make a big discussion like this, do a quick search (http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/search.php?s=) on the forum archives, first. Most of those very same points were raised, and shot down, back in December/January when the filter was put in place.

Cmon now, can't we debate without the subtle personal attacks? >.<

[Siquo]

It's been said a thousand times, and it will need to be said probably a thousand times more often.

SEX IS A NORMAL WORD.
Perhaps not for people who spend all day making up swearfilters, and have no other life than that, but to other people, it is. The alternative for the second meaning, "gender", is much less commonly used.
The usage of the word Gay as a swearword is common enough, but from now on I'll stick to using the phrase "That witchblock was soooo Lesbian".

The swearfilter is easily avoided though, so there isn't much use for it, it is only being abused in the "Press F5" kind of way ("Can you explain to me what asl means?").

[MallaLubba]

Ok, look. You are skating on thin ice, here. The Thesauri does not like language ignorance.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. from http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2293 :
Originally posted by MallaLubba
Ok, maybe I'm in a bad mood toady, but:

Let's get to the root of a language filter. A language filter is set in place to weed out vulgarity, right?

Now, the manner in which you are using the word gay is offensive, and I'll show you why. You are using it in a manner that imposes it with a negative connotation. You are saying that if something is gay it is bad (or as you put it "blah").

So, you've said that what this word means is bad, and that offends people. The problem isn't that the word is really not a curse word when used correctly. The problem is that very few people actually use the word correctly.

So, saying "You are so gay." is wrong on several levels. "You are so stupid." is just utterly uncreative.

[Machin Shin]

Ri'Orius Has a good point. about ****, and other stuph. However, sometimes, the subject needs to be raised again because there are new Ideas out there, and oppinions change, and threads even on the second page and lower almost never see the light of "day".

I would also like to make a good point. What if YOU wer a parent? would you like you're 10 yearold child to start cussing because he plays TAO and sees these fools typing that crap? I'm talking about ALL of it. including damn, shit, and ass. I don't think most good parents would want their child seeing that, but why deprive them of the game just because of other people's stupid choices? There will be cussing everywhere you go. I realise that, but something should be done.

I don't know if it is possible to block cusswords with periods, spaces, or whatever in between them to get around the filter, but It shure would be nice.

[S_K_O_F]

there is NO indefinate way of blocking all the little variations that people will use to get around the filter...but I do agree that it should be all or nothing. I raised the point before to change the filter to only boot if and only if bitch, shit, fuck, damn, ass, whore, etc are used...I haven't used flash...I don't know the language, but I do know some programming languages and I know that searching for a specific string of characters is not that hard...I had to do it in a CS class. I understand that the admins are very busy and they probably don't have time for it...But couldn't this have been done in the first release of the filter?

I am not demanding that this be changed...but it is just a suggestion

[plusminus]

do you think we could add 'asl' to the list of banned words? please? ;)

[<AnArChY>]

why the hell would you want to do that though?

[Shuichi]

First off, Malla go /stats me please. Then I would like you to go through your post again. But I disagree with you, if someone said I was gay, then stupid, I would be equally insulted (with no offence taken ^^). Also, I agreed that there should be one in place, just that the current one is not good enough.

I would also like to make a good point. What if YOU wer a parent? would you like you're 10 year old child to start cussing because he plays TAO and sees these fools typing that crap? I'm talking about ALL of it. Including damn, shit, and ass. I don't think most good parents would want their child seeing that, but why deprive them of the game just because of other people's stupid choices? There will be cussing everywhere you go. I realize that, but something should be done.

In my original post, I think if you read it again you will easily find that I covered this subject. On another note, if my 10 year old can successfully play this game, I would feel he is of the mental capacity to understand and see all of those swear words. Violence is the problem in the media today, not sex or curse words, but that is a totally different debate.

-I am asking for equality or un-banning of several silly words, or the banning of all the words that share the same questionable nature (See gay and lesbian).

-But mainly I am asking for *****. Kicking you from the server is just ridiculous and lazy, especially when I can convey the same meaning of fuck or any other word so easily, please if you will, consider the following examples. fukc-fux-fuk-fu-fuc k-fu ck-f uck. If you are telling me that you can’t see that any of those are still “fuck” you need help. If you think your 10 year old who has the mental capacity to play the game in the first place, doesn’t know what those mean, you need help.

Kicking me because I said penis and causing me to loose 34 points = ridiculous. If I want to say my furgon has a big penis, and get a few laughs out there for me and my opponent, then I should be able to.

[Furious_Angel]

Originally posted by plusminus
do you think we could add 'asl' to the list of banned words? please? ;) thats a question not a swear... retard...

[Shuichi]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by plusminus
do you think we could add 'asl' to the list of banned words? please?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

thats a question not a swear... retard...

Not that I would normally care. But can we please keep the insults and sarcasm out of this thread. I would like to keep this thread as civil as possible so it will be taken seriously.

[Furious_Angel]

i wasn't bein sarcastic... but w/e O_o

[Shuichi]

I meant the ASL guy ^^. plusminus..

[Furious_Angel]

wow i feel smart ^_^

[Shuichi]

Originally posted by Furious_Angel
wow i feel smart ^_^

I should have clarified.

[Shuichi]

On another note, why am I looking at someone named F_U_C_K_Y_O_U in the lobby? ><

[Furious_Angel]

next reset they will be deleted and it has been said that they WONT be able to make names like that anymore... but i have seen golds with swear words in there name

[Shuichi]

I do fully support a name filter....but I would love to see what admin has to say about my ideas.

[S_K_O_F]

I would guess that they will say the same things they have said in other threads

[Shuichi]

Hopefuly they will consider what I have brought about, and not fire off some programed response.

[Furious_Angel]

Suggestions that have been offered (02/04/04)
Here shall be the master list of Suggestions and it shall be edited as more of them are seen.

1. The ability to watch/spectate games.

2. Game logging/replays. (The ability to save the progress of a game so that you can watch it again later.)

3. Battles involving more than 2 players.

4. An automated ranking system, so that the rankings can be updated much quicker and easier.

5. A way to save set-ups/formations, so that certain set-ups can be created more quickly.

6. A /ignore feature to block out spammers or otherwise annoying players.

7. Different terrain on the playing field. Whether it is different terrain for each square individually, or for the whole field.

8. Trading units and/or trading wins/draws for units. PLEASE do not suggest this anymore.

9. A suggestion to stop the server wide sweep of grey (free) accounts. This will never stop, please stop suggesting it.

10. A /[name] feature to send private messages; or, more simply, a way to send a message to a single player, even if they are not in your clan.

11. A gold-only server. Do not suggest it, as it has been told to us (by the admins) that it is in the works as we speak. Give it time, it will be here soon.

12. Silver/Bronze accounts. Any form of account that costs less than gold, but you get to keep account up and running.

13. A change in blocking chances. It will not be changed, so don't ask. Just build your strategies so that a unit that blocks once or twice will not harm you that much. *Exception: Yes, late in the game when there are few units left, blocking can be annoying, but such is life* Blocking will not be changed no matter how much you ask for it.

14. Lowering or raising of clock time/speed. It is fine as it is, it is nearly two minutes, give or take. However, total changes, (Ahab's Chess Clock idea) are original. Feel free to post about total conversions to the clock.

Please do not suggest any of these ideas anymore, or, if you feel the need to comment on one of them, please do not make a new thread, but rather, search the forums for the thread applying to the idea, and post it there. Do not simply make more threads about things that have already been suggested.

Thanks go to Ahab and Londonjack for keeping me updated here.

If any of you guys see any more, send me a Private Message, and I'll update this.

[Darth_Seth]

I completely agree with Shuichi. The filter needs to be an all or nothing thing. I for one am willing to let the mods decide what should be blocked and what should be allowed, but could we at least have a list? As it stands, if I don't want to risk losing points in a game, I have to sit in the channel and try to think of everything that might possibly be banned and try to say it.

Also, I think that asterisks or something should be used, in place of booting. Ok, you want a stricter stance than most games, that's fine, but the end result is the same. I type "fuck" once, I get booted, so every time after I type "f uck" and it gets by. What difference does it make if I get booted the first time, or if I see it replaced by asterisks? The only people really hurt by being booted for cursing are people who either don't know about the filter or don't know all the words included in it. So, with the current system, all we're really doing is punishing ignorance of something that was not mentioned anywhere in the sign up or even rules that I saw (I didn't know about it til I got booted) and the people who really want to curse still can. Sounds like a failed system to me.

[DivineRight]

Talk about beating a dead horse...:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Thank you for your input, have a nice day.

[Rescorlian]

The only way to flog the horse more is to have me in the convo... um... yeah.. the filter sucks. And soon I will launch my ultimate plan to have it removed. MUAHAHAHAHAH!!! J/K :)

[Furious_Angel]

watch someone try to ahck TAO or somethign of that sort and resc will get blamed...

[Rescorlian]

I HAVE NO PLAN OF ANY SORTS!!! I HAVE NO HACKING ABILITIES!! That would so suck. It wouldn't be the first time that sorta thing has happened to me iether, make a joke then it happens and I get blamed. Besides I have never done or said anything that I felt would damage TAO. All of my posts as towards the gameplay and as such I felt was in it's best interests, I have been wrong, but I would never do anything that would compramise it. Ok I feel a litle better now I know I won't get blamed.

[Furious_Angel]

if i could hack into TAO (and if i could i wouldn't) i woulch change the color of my text to red like Bills i could make peopel think a Unit Drop is coming lol

***THE WINNER OF THIS GAME GETS A DRAGON*** lol greys would trip

[S_K_O_F]

Originally posted by DivineRight
Talk about beating a dead horse...:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Thank you for your input, have a nice day.


lol...i knew that was coming
you can always count on DivineRight to prove a point:D

[Shuichi]

Originally posted by DivineRight
Talk about beating a dead horse...:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Thank you for your input, have a nice day.

No one is beating a dead horse. Have you ever heard of a term called mutual respect? You my friend are not showing any, but I will continue to do so, even with my horrible Irish temper.

Do you think we could get some kind of other response as to why some of the changes we have asked for will not be made or can not be made? Maybe if things were more seriously discussed, there would not be repeat discussions.

I feel these are valid requests, and should be taken seriously. Why can’t the list be fixed to include and exclude words brought up in my examples? Why can’t you post a list of non acceptable words, so that people like me are not surprised in the middle of a game by a disconnect? Why can’t the asterisks be considered? Why can’t an on/off feature be considered?

I would expect something a little more from a business than the insulting sarcastic remark this thread has seen from admin thus far. Poor business ethics are being practiced here and will only come back to bite you in the ass later.

[Rescorlian]

As you said suichi bad ethics. It seem sthat to both admin and users of this game care not about how the system runs or how happy the users are with the "game". They are much more interested in the bells and whistles like new unit (yeah, so far they've done a real good job since the dragon and stone golem)
I happen to agreew ith you however I must keep myself away from these topics as I have been a martyr for thm since I got here, and continously get my self in trouble with admin. Especially bills, boy does that guy not like me.

[XXX_KAIN]

i like sex :D

[Shuichi]

Well, I will wait to see if they decide to spend 10 minutes of their time to post something more than a post whore response before I make anymore comments.

I don't care if I become a martyr, I can take my money somewhere else. I've seen these kinds of ethics greatly hurt a company over time before. EverQuest anyone? Good thing Sony bought Verant out and totally revamped its customer service department.

You have to realize, without us, you will eventually have no power, abusing it is a very bad choice imho.

[XXX_KAIN]

calm down sparky, take a chill pill

[Furious_Angel]

Originally posted by Shuichi
Well, I will wait to see if they decide to spend 10 minutes of their time to post something more than a post whore response before I make anymore comments.

I don't care if I become a martyr, I can take my money somewhere else. I've seen these kinds of ethics greatly hurt a company over time before. EverQuest anyone? Good thing Sony bought Verant out and totally revamped its customer service department.

You have to realize, without us, you will eventually have no power, abusing it is a very bad choice imho. are you hatin on the post whores?! WE WILL DESTROY YOU!!!!!

[ArcPaladinZero]

There's nothing wrong with being a whore... a posting whore that is. :D

[XXX_KAIN]

i like whores too:D if they dont got diseases
which most of em do:(

[ArcPaladinZero]

You can't get diseases from being a post whore. ;)

[Shuichi]

Originally posted by ArcPaladinZero
You can't get diseases from being a post whore. ;)

Or can you? O.o

[QuicksandSlowly]

I've been a post whore for a couple months now, nothing bad has happened yet..

[Shuichi]

*Waits patiently*

[Darth_Seth]

I would also like to see a more constructive response from the administration.

[myhkahl]

i'll save them the trouble...




http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2601


read the first post in that thread, it explains what the TOS has to say about language and what rights the mods have in regards to it


and the asterik change u r asking for will not be made, words may be added or taken off, but that is up to the mods discretion, not popular opinion, maybe u havent taken the hint but ur not gonna get much more of a response than that

[Rescorlian]

Thanx mykahl, we have had this convo several times (thus were I show my martyr'sm) The truth is admin doesn't want to spend time in dealing with tthe nit picky stuff like the filter and such. They want to do the fun stuff. And I can't blame them in the least, this game was built for the fun stuff. However (oh no I can already feel myself getting into trouble, remember bills, you can't kill me for just complaining :D:D) the truth is this game ihas evolved past the point of being just for fun. It has urned into a business that requires the picky crap and all the stuff they don't wanna do, has to be done first. I will however also mention you gotta imagine the work load they have on theur hands. I pm and have a little convo ith divine every now and again, the last pm I got from him was written while he was going through the amassed pile of stuff that had built up while he was gone.

In total I say that this site is going well. However this filter thing keeps coming up and therefore presents neccesitty and priority, admin and everyone know's how I feel on this point (the link that was given, there should be a thread on the same page that is somewhat a sister to it) and what I would like to see done. I continue to carry these opinions but have chosen to let off admin for a while.

Though it seems I made a mistake as they released a unit like the furgon. :p

[DivineRight]

Sigh, sometimes I really should take a lesson from Bills and Seed...

Shuichi and Resc, let me make one thing clear, TAO is an online tactics game. It is not an IRC chat channel; it is not a bulletin board or anything like that. New units, a new ranking system, clan support, this keeps the game running and exciting. This keeps the business going. Spending our resources researching and customizing a swear filter to what our players feel is fair does absolutely nothing for the game. The only reason we allow chat is for people to find games with each other. Resc, you yourself talk about how TAO is a business, more importantly, OUR business and so far we are doing a pretty good job of it in all aspects. I have mentioned it countless times, we have a Terms of Service for a reason, and this is our playground so it is YOUR job to learn OUR rules. Implementing a Gold’s only server, new payment options, new site options, more clan support, and server stability are considered "bells and whistles"? Do you think allowing people to curse and swear are really going to make the game run smoother and be more fun? Allowing someone to use the word “gay” freely is better than a new unit? Are you kidding me? You already know this Resc so I don't need to go through it all again but just for the record since implementing the filter how many e-mails have you sent to me of users being lewd and disgusting that needed to be removed from the server?

As for you Shuichi, Bills and I spent over a month arguing with people and trying to explain our motives and expectations with the filter. There is nothing you can say that hasn't already been said, there is nothing you can suggest that hasn't already been suggested. Rather than shoot you down, I used sarcasm to shed some laughter on a subject that seems to stir up harsh emotions. Do you not see how trivial it is getting for me to respond to posts like this? Do you really expect us to drop our current daily activities and responsibilities, along with all of our new plans and additions to make Tactics Arena Online a better game to write up a list of words for you and to find out what every single one of our users (who by the way are mostly between the ages of 12-25) think is fair?

You aren't a martyr if you leave, it makes you a cry baby because you are "taking your money somewhere else" sole on the fact that you don't get to have everything your way. Its amazing how disillusioned some people are. The reason why I have so much respect on the forums and in the game is because I keep it real. I will reciprocate the same level of respect that you show to me. I am not your friend nor have I ever claimed to be, so I’m not sure where this “mutual respect” is coming from. How do you expect me to take you seriously when what you are essentially doing is complaining about the fact that you can’t curse and swear? I laughed at your post when you used swearing and "free speech" in the same sentence. It shows you know nothing about freedom of speech so please do not throw your weak presumptions of the American Amendments at me. You make assumptions and presume to speak on the behalf of all of your peers when it is quite obvious that the majority do not think the same way as you do. Yes you are 20 years old, yes you enjoy vulgarity but not everyone here is like you. There are over 250 COPPA users on this forum alone and the members here reflect maybe 1/100th of the total gamers on one server alone. As well, not everyone here is from the USA so what you find perfectly acceptable may not be elsewhere. It means nothing that kids hear words like this every day in public and it means nothing that they might use it in every day language; bottom line is that we do not accept it here. Nowhere in our Terms of Service does it state that you are allowed to say “my furgon has a big penis”, I’m not sure where you come off saying that you have the right to do so because you certainly do not here. Its not about mental capacity or what you, Shuichi, think is proper parenting (because it is also obvious you know nothing about that subject). TAO promotes a safe, comfortable gaming environment for people of all ages so we will stick by our methods.

Shuichi and Resc you two talk about ethics like I know nothing about them. It is quite well-known that I am very behind on my work right now and it is 2am currently but I had to take the time to write this to you guys. I guarantee you any other gaming company would of laughed at you two and probably deleted you rather than take their time to respond to your posts. Being ethical in business means being accountable for your actions and keeping your customers aware of changes and updates. We have always delivered what we have promised and stayed true to our beliefs and methods. If you have issues with my customer service please check the Gold Accounts Help forums sometime, find out from other members on the board on my policies and ask around if I am incompetent or unfair as it seems you two are suggesting. We are the first to admit that the filter is not perfect but nothing ever is, the fact of the matter is that the filter is doing what it was intended to do and it has made our lives a whole lot easier. We do continuously modify it but if that is not good enough for you, I am sorry you feel that way.

[Shuichi]

No, my friend. I made some suggestions, and asked for something more than a sarcastic remark. Nothing else. I didn't ask for a 4 page lecture. If you can't read what is plain as day in front of your face, that is not my problem. I stated several times they were suggestions.

A very quick and concise statement, like:

“Hey Shuichi, and others, thanks for your concern, we are buried way deep in our work right now, so this is not a main priority, if it will ever be.”

Would have been wonderful. It would have taken less time out of your day. Less time out of my day, and everyone would have gone on playing TAO like happy little campers.

But no, instead you come off as a power tripping asshole and bring forth a snide degrading remark, with the intention to try and humiliate me on the forums that you call “humor”.

Also, just because you don’t believe cursing is covered by the first amendment doesn’t mean you should once again, try to insult. I wholeheartedly understand that this is a private institution, and that you are free to limit speech to however you see fit in YOUR program. I also stated, in my first post, very clearly that I am ALL FOR A CURSE FILTER.

On another note, for a game that only has chat, so that people can get games going easier, the whole /c chat is a little overboard don’t you think? Why do you need clans in the first place, if this is just a place to play tactics, and not chat with other people?

I never claimed any rights about whether I should or shouldn’t be able to say things on YOUR game. I stated that the current filter is inept and made some suggestions to fix it. I gave arguments for both sides, but I guess my post was either to complicated for you, or you just didn’t take the time to read it.

It is just plain silly that a filter was put in place, without any warning as to what words would kick you from the server. You can debate this all you want, but it still won’t change the fact about how silly it is.

Allowing someone to use the word “gay” freely is better than a new unit? Are you kidding me?

You say that you don’t have the time to do this kind of thing, while trying to bring new content to the game. Why couldn’t you have said that in the first place, without your 4 page essay and a 40+ post thread? I never once asked for this instead of new content, it was just an example, which I even later edited, and put a comment in the sentence, making SURE people knew it was just an example.

I even offered to lend my assistance and WRITE you a filter that I feel would do a better job than the one in place, for free. I very much so enjoy the community that has established itself in your game, and would gladly offer my time to help it grow.

I guarantee you any other gaming company would of laughed at you two and probably deleted you rather than take their time to respond to your posts.

Actually I come to TAO, and speak about subjects like these to admin, because I have in the past with other games, and they very much welcomed the feedback. It is poor ethics, whether you can see it or not. I never questioned your ability to create a quality game, but maybe you should re-think your personal relation skills.

I never claimed to be a martyr, the statement was directed to rasc, not the admin. I simply said, I could take my money somewhere else. No crying, no hard feelings. If it comes to a point where I am no longer enjoying the game, because I get booted for saying a word that I had no idea was blocked, then so be it. This is hardly asking for everything my way. I could come up with a MUCH bigger wishlist to make this game perfect to *my* standards. I made a suggestion believing that it would make the game better for everyone, not just me.

P.S. Excuse me for expecting mutual respect, I show it to everyone whether I have known them my entire life, or I just met them on a message board. It's called tact.

P.P.S I have no hard feelings towards you, for you said it yourself this brings up harsh memories and feelings. I was only trying to make some good intentioned suggestions, and you got ugly with me.

[Rescorlian]

Hmm, I'm not quite sure what to say, on the one hand I have been scolded for simply stating a brief summary of my opinion along with the info that this has already been discussed. On the other hand this is punishment for not being smart enough to keep my name of this thread.

So I will reply as so, I directed none of my opinion at admin. I made no attempt to restart an old debate, if I was going to I'd be blunt about it and revitalise my old thread so there was no mistaking my intentions. And I am frankly insulted that you directed that post at me aswell. I was stating my opinion to back up that this discussion had already been discussed, as you said to the point where there was nothing new.
However, as I said before I was a martyr for it so I can't blame you for nailing me with some of the shit too. By know divine, everyone, anyone should know I am not one to sneak around the bushes (furgon sucks :D) I am blunt and to the point. (hmmm, very oxi-moronic statement). Take from that last statement what you will, however I believe if divine reads this he will get exactly what I mean.

And yes to confirm what you said, you guys are doing a very good job, hence why it has stayed dropped. However if your going to be putting in really cool bells and whistles, no more crappy one's like the furgon :D:D
I'm not really sure what the point of my post is, or what direction I'm heading. Basically what I want to say is, I have no need to drag this out again, and it was not necesary to "chastise" me as there was no reason to.

[Sir Vilhelm]

Well I personally think having a swear filter is sometimes necessary... but only for truely designated swear words... common words, or anatomical words should NOT be blocked... even if they can be used in an insulting way.

Also, if we have a filter... it should be just that... a FILTER. Not a booter... People should not get disconnected. Because to tell you the truth... the only people getting disconnected are the ones that are trying to use the words in normal conversation. Honestly... all the thirteen year old jerks just retype the swears with spaces or misspellings. The filter is doing nothing but making honest and literate players afraid to speak...

Thats just my two cents on the whole thing... Seed's server has a much better system, I'm told...

[drakonfire]

*sighs and rubs temples... again* shuichi... okay heres the deal, this has been fought over, debated and flamed to the point that i'm sure God himself sighs everytime it comes up again... so when DR said "talk about beating a dead horse" he was making a light hearted statement that in and of itself was exactly what u were looking for, when u suggest something in a game, and a mod replys with sarcasm, shouldnt that indicate to u its probably NOT a high priority? just my thought process there

and then when he replys with a well thought out post u flame him back and essentially tell him he has no PR skills, PR skills r keeping it real, not babying ur customers with kind answer while ur secretly gnashing ur teeth over the whole thing, honestly, if he offended u with his post, at least he told it how it is

and as to the list of words? they explained that, if they had a list everyone would kno what words to create variations of, and DR has said it before, guidline for what NOT to say "if u have to stop and think as to wether its appropiate or not, dont say it!" simple as that

any harsh posts in response to ur suggestions is probably a result of all the stress related to this topic, as resc can testify, we have argued this back and forth... again... and again... and again

and vinny(:D) personelly i have seen a decrease in swearing, but maybe thats just me

and resc, if u thought DR was harsh, it might be because of "The truth is admin doesn't want to spend time in dealing with tthe nit picky stuff like the filter and such. They want to do the fun stuff. And I can't blame them in the least, this game was built for the fun stuff. However (oh no I can already feel myself getting into trouble, remember bills, you can't kill me for just complaining ) the truth is this game ihas evolved past the point of being just for fun" that whole comment could be taken offensively if the person reading it was in the wrong mood, and i can almsot garanteed and mods reading a thread on the filter will be in the wrong mood ;)


ahhh thats just my 2 cents on the whole matter, now someone close the thread... plz? oh and shuichi if i didnt address one of ur concerns, sry, i really need to get back to skool (wretched homeskooling and comp with constant net access :D:D:D ;) )

[DivineRight]

Shuichi, you can't demand respect from me, you must earn it. I have never been one to sugar-coat anything, you speak of ethics, well that is one ethic that I hold true in all aspects of my life; I am straight up and honest. You are fake and arrogant, especially when the reason you show respect is for "tact" not because it is real. Why would I say something like:

“Hey Shuichi, and others, thanks for your concern, we are buried way deep in our work right now, so this is not a main priority, if it will ever be.”

I am an administrator and the Gold Accounts manager; nowhere in my job title does it suggest that I need to kiss some young, arrogant and pompous kid's ass.

You are so contradicting, one minute you are all for a curse-filter, the next minute you are claiming that it is your God-given right to spew profanity if you feel like it. Our filter gets our message across to our gamers quite successfully and efficiently.

Clans do a better job of promoting the game, ensuring fair-play and increasing competitiveness than anything else. You speak like you have all of this insight with gaming, making references to games like Everquest yet something so simple confuses you.

Yes Shuichi, you did claim to be a martyr, you even quoted yourself. The only reason anyone could see you were going to "take your money somewhere else" was because you were unsatisfied with the filter. Again, that doesn't make you a hero. I have told you already, your suggestion doesn't make the game better for everybody. I know this because I am in the frontlines when it comes to dealing with the parents of our COPPA users. I am the one who deletes users that can't seem to respect the fact that lewd and disgusting remarks are not welcome here. I am also the one who is mainly responsible for the administrating and moderations of both the gaming servers and the forums. I have never made claims about knowing what is better for everyone, how arrogant are you to think that after a few weeks of playing this game that you can speak on everyone's behalf?

P.S. Respect is earned; you have shown me no reason to reciprocate it. You say there are no hard feelings yet you resort to name calling ("asshole"), I have shut down every single one of your points and you still can't get over my initial post so I will end it here. The only reason I do respond to posts like this is because of ethics. Perhaps you should look up the word to find out what it really means.

[S_K_O_F]

Wow!!! I don't think I have seen divine defend himself and TAO so much...Shuichi must have really gotten you work up.


*wonders if DivineRight was as pissed at me back in the day*

[DivineRight]

S_K_O_F its from watching The Apprentice, Donald Trump says that you should always fight for yourself, so thats what I'm doing. =)

The guy called me an "asshole", he turned it personal. He also said I was power-tripping, if that was true he'd be IP banned from the forums and deleted. I take responsibility for everything that I do and I hold myself accountable for all of my actions.

[Rescorlian]

Hopefully this is my last post on this thread. Yeah I totally agree. Suichi you crossed the line BIGTIME! Never in my arrogance or anger did I disrespect the admin so fraglanty. Here's a simple fact, they run this game and make it awsome. Mainatain respect or youwill quickly find any and all you have earned here will no longer be reciprocated to you.

Draoknfire, Yeah I know. I totally agree on the rubbing of temples *rubs temples*. Yeah I guess that statement was offensive. Sorry divine this had to be dug up AGAIN. I'm more over sorry you had to defend yourself. As the first one to post after suichi I should have caught that. I was going to however I figured after that comment you wouldn't waste your time.

In total, suichi read the twi threads. Me and drakonfire did this song and dance (at each other more or less) a while ago. Read the threads and if you have anything new to add... keep it to yourself for now. Let admin catch up on what they're doing, put out a couple cool things (cause I love the cool things as long as they don't suck as much as furgon :D). This argument will never truly die, however choose a better time for it. The forums still haven't gotten over the first go I think.


My point is this. Leave it be, and don't disrespect admin, there is no faster way to lose respect. I did it maybe once or twice and paid for it. I have no plans of ever doing so again. I'm gonna shutup now before I get myself in more touble.

[Shuichi]

-I never once said that I was against a swear filter. Please quote me, I would like to see it.

-I never once said that it was my god given right to swear all I want in your game, actually I said just the opposite.

“Hey Shuichi, and others, thanks for your concern, we are buried way deep in our work right now, so this is not a main priority, if it will ever be.”

-That is not kissing anyone’s ass, it is giving a respectful answer.

-How am I fake and arrogant again? This started as a suggestion until you blew me off with a degrading comment.

-I have played for more than “a few weeks”. I have been gold for over a month, and played since launch.

-I did not resort to name calling, I said you were acting like an asshole, not that you were one, because I am positive you are a nice guy when not confronted.

-I still do not know, how a more efficient swear filter wouldn’t benefit everyone, you have yet to explain this.

-You didn’t shut down anything. You attempt to quote me and “shut down” things I never said.

Clans do a better job of promoting the game, ensuring fair-play and increasing competitiveness than anything else. You speak like you have all of this insight with gaming, making references to games like Everquest yet something so simple confuses you.


-It's called sarcasm. It is completely obvious that clans promote organization and competition.

-Banning this ip, would result in several of your gold account users from being able to log in, just fyi.

-I have no hard feelings, because unlike some people I can enter a confrontation and leave without carrying a grudge. Please refer to my 6th point.

-I've worked retail and customer service for a combined total of 4 years. If you think the way you treat customers is ethical and tactful, you have another thing coming.

-In the position you are in, respect should be a givin, untill someone has done something to loose it. You have not shown me any since your first post. However you have nothing to worry about if this can float without paying customers.

-I will not continue to show you respect, when none was shown to me from the start. You don't want to be disrespected, then don't disrespect me (I would also like to re-direct you to the post where I supposedly "called you an asshole", please read the wording).

-Resc, the lines were broke, after his second post.

[XXX_KAIN]

stop making such long posts, it hurts my little brain:(

[Darth_Seth]

You are so contradicting, one minute you are all for a curse-filter, the next minute you are claiming that it is your God-given right to spew profanity if you feel like it

Hold on one freakin second. For about the 3rd time, SHUICHI IS ALL FOR A FILTER. He has never once said that he doesn't want a filter. All he asked for was a revision/clarification of the new system.



Shuichi, you can't demand respect from me, you must earn it

Wow, I'm simply amazed by this statement. Do you mean to tell me that Shuichi, as a paying customer in a business relationship doesn't get respect from you? No business I know of can get away with disrespecting customers if they expect to last long.

I am an administrator and the Gold Accounts manager; nowhere in my job title does it suggest that I need to kiss some young, arrogant and pompous kid's ass

I have yet to see Shuichi being either arrogant or pompous. What I have seen is a paying customer with an idea to improve the product he pays for be completely blown off and disrespected
by the company that provides this product. Instead of the first post made by DivineRight, which was no answer at all, or even the second, which insulted Shuichi and still wasn't much of an answer, a simple statement
“Hey Shuichi, and others, thanks for your concern, we are buried way deep in our work right now, so this is not a main priority, if it will ever be.”

was all that was needed. This would've been an acceptable answer to a valid concern that Shuichi and several others obviously share. The thread would've ended there, everybody would've been happy.

I would also like to see a MODIFICATION/CLARIFICATION/IMPROVEMENT to the current swear filter. (in caps to avoid confusion) This concern, originally brought up in order to improve TAO, is a valid one because it affects everyone who plays. This concern could have been address acceptably in about 2 minutes by one of the mods, saying nothing more than that they were busy and this isn't a high priority. This concern first wasn't addressed at all, then was addressed with a healthy dose of sarcasm and insults by the mod. This thread, and the mod's lack of respect and even good business sense make me wonder if I really do want to encourage this by continually sending in money. I'm really disappointed. I enjoy this game, but I'm enjoying it less every new post I read by DivineRight.

[S_K_O_F]

GUYS...first off I want to state that I am taking NO side with this conversation...that can offend whoever wants to be offended

I would like to say though, the point of the filter was to discourage the pervs that were trying to cyber with everyone in the lobby or game...I have been here long enough to see it, and you know what, it worked...it wasn't to stop people from swearing.

Shuichi and Darth_Seth, I can address you both because I know you both personally and all i have to say is this...you know that filter that is on our network now, well, it goes without saying that you could leave our school because of it if you so pleased...you could use the exact same argument and say you should have the right to play diablo 2 on battle.net or play any other online game that is blocked...but regardless, it is blocked for your own protection, not because we want to limit you in any way...

I will agree with you that the filter could use some revision...make no mistake about that...I agree completely that there should be equal representation for all words that could be deemed inappropriate, including lesbian and vagina and whatever else ...

Unfortunately like our school, this site is undermanned...especially with the amount of accounts they have to deal with...which is like 3 or 4 times the amount that we have...Divine and Bills have done their best to please the customers but there are things that I think are more important...
If you feel you have to swear in game, DONT!!!
there are plenty of ways to express your feelings without it

The swear filter has done its job...I don't have a problem with getting booted for cussing, because i have become accustomed to the filter...I don't think I have ever lost a game because of it


EDIT - DivineRights's approach can be straight forward and confrontational sometimes...I experienced it a while ago because I was n00bish enough to think I could do what I wanted...But losing 1 or 2 or 10 golds will not hurt this site, and everyone can be assured I won't leave until I am tired of playing, because the gameplay far exceeds the attitude of the admins...
I will say this...honestly, divineRight could not be so condecending to the customers, regardless of what they say to him... but, how would you respond to the posts in this thread...I would be offended just like he was, regardless of your meaning, shuichi...your tone could have been taken offensively and ... you know me...I would have been pissed too

[Shuichi]

The tone from my first post? You are obviously not reading what I am saying. I have stated several times, in person that I agree that this is a private network, and they have all the rights in the world to limit it how they see fit. I think, this last Saturday was the last time I said it. IN YOUR HOUSE.

I did not get insulting until he did. My first post was very respectful to any one who might have administrative powers. I insulted the filter, called it inept and lacking, which it most certainly is. Please point out where I insulted any administrators or mods BEFORE I said DivineRight was ACTING like an asshole.

He has taken this far beyond the original issue, and I will not sit here and be demoralized in front of people I do and do not know in real life.

Sure, maybe this ONE subject will cause only a few people to leave, and that in it self will not hurt the game. But mark my words, continue this attitude with other subjects and concerns, and it will kill this game. I have seen it happen before, to much larger companies.

Oh and S_K_O_F what do you mean you “were a n00b” you still are ><.

[S_K_O_F]

NO longer am I a n00b here though!!! :D

I would say that my opinion is pretty well respected around here (maybe not)

but like i said I wasnt choosing sides...I was just trying to post from a neutral standpoint

I actually think both of you (shuichi and DivineRight) overreacted to each other...and it wasn't, and is not now necessary to continue throwing insults because it will not get any of us anywhere

[Shuichi]

S_K_O_F u r /\/\y h3r0

[S_K_O_F]

thank you ...and I KNOW!!! :D


I would like to say, though...I just like jumping in the middle of arguments and playing the opposite side to everyone

it is funny how people can be distracted from the original argument

[Shuichi]

it is funny how people can be distracted from the original argument

Kind of like how people can totaly twist what you say and then attempt to pwn you but fail miserably ><.

[drakonfire]

Originally posted by Shuichi

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clans do a better job of promoting the game, ensuring fair-play and increasing competitiveness than anything else. You speak like you have all of this insight with gaming, making references to games like Everquest yet something so simple confuses you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



-It's called sarcasm. It is completely obvious that clans promote organization and competition.



now heres a funny thing, divines first reply to ur concers was so totally obviously sarcastic it was hilarious... i mean shuichi, i suggest stupid things every once in a while to my friend and they r all go "YEAH!!! that'd be a great idea, why didnt we think of that?!" and instead of taking it as a degrading remark i smile and say "lemme guess, its been suggested?"

so when divine said u were beating a dead horse with this thread, it was not degrading towards u, he was just saying "its all been said before, leave off"

and u think ur 4 years of customer service make u an expert? do u honestly hav to deal with 300,000 ppl? nope, didnt think so, my uncle owns an internet hosting company and he says crap like this all the time with his customers, he tells them how it is, they thank him and life goes on, hes been in business longer than i have been alive (and i'm willing to bet almost as long if not longer than u have been alive)


and another thing, if someone told u that u were acting like a 2 year old who cries everytime he doesnt get what he wants... wouldnt u probably take that to mean thats what they were calling u? u told divine he was acting like an asshole, and personelly i probably would have taken as much offense to that statement as DR did, so back off, acting and being... there is berely any difference when it comes to name calling


and as to all this mutual respect crap u keep throwing around, i love the concept, i respect ppl to a certain degree when i first meet them, and depending upon how they act, my respect for them either goes up or down, ur first post was very civilized, but after DR made his sarcastic one u got really ugly and my repsect for u has dropped significantly, if u truly respected DR u wouldnt have made that big a deal out of it, u could have PMed him about why he made that comment and figured the whole thing out in private, but no, u had to make it all public where no one but ur friends r really supporting u, and everyone else is pretty much with DR (or they have the common sense not to get invovled, something i'm lacking on this subject :eek: )


and finally ur last comment was low "Kind of like how people can totaly twist what you say and then attempt to pwn you but fail miserably ><." if u truly respect DR continue this discussion in private, and keep ur tone respectful at all times even if his is not (or seems not to be) perhaps u will both come out of this with a better respect for each other


i also agree with SKOF that u both had a nice dose of overreaction here, but shuichi u keep provoking more (do not contradict that, the last line i just quoted was obviously meant to provoke DR) reactions out of DR and others... for the sake of the forum and the respect of all the other posters DROP IT OR TAKE IT TO A PRIVATE DISCUSSION sayin something like "Hey DR, i kno we didnt get off on the greatest foot but maybe we could work this out, here is my list of suggestion, can/will anything be done with it? thanx" end of discussion and life goes on, happily for EVERYONE INVOLVED

[Darth_Seth]

First off, Shuichi didn't even come close to being sarcastic until after DivineRight saw fit to essentially flame him for making a post about improving the game we all play. The issue is no longer about the swear filter, which I still support, but would rather see improved. The issue now is how completely unncessary DivineRight's first post was, and how disrespectful, even rude, he as been from the beginning of this thread.

I also have worked in customer service for 4 years, but I don't need to be an expert. I know that if I am as rude to my customers as DivineRight has been from the beginning, guess what? I lose the customers!! That's how it works.

Again, Shuichi was never anything but respectful until DR's second post. Actually, he stayed respectful even after that, but he's only human. DR has made incredibly insulting and sarcastic posts twice now, while making up points to refute and putting words in Shuichi's mouth. I personally don't blame Shuichi at all for a little slip like calling him an asshole. DR talked about earning respect, but so far he has earned 0 in my eyes, and I'm sure in the eyes of others.

I love TAO. I have a great time playing. I would hate to see it fall apart because one of the admins can't exercise good business sense and stop being rude to customers.

[drakonfire]

okay perhaps it seemed rude to someone who was expecting a serious well thought out reply the first time around, but while in customer service have u NEVER ONCE made a sarcastic comment to a customer with a grin on ur face that said "i'm just kidding with u and i kno of ur concern" thats precisely waht this was as DR explained that he was trying to inject some humor into was has typically been a flame bait type thread... this is why i dont like bulliten boards all that well, because we ppl dont kno eachother well, u cant tell when they r being sarcastic, shuichi felt that DR was being insulting when that really wasnt his intent at all, and his second post was serious with perhaps a bit more of an edge than was needed, but he told it like it was and u cant fault him for that

and if this issue is no longer about the swear filter, why r we here? r we so intent upon defending our egos that we absolutely MUST rag on the guy who insulted us? real or imagined? can we just get over it plz?



shuichi here is the answer u were looking for the whole time

"Thanx but currently no more time will be devoted to the filter, words may be added or removed as updates r made, but the boot feature will never leave. and it is over all not a very high priority"


there, is that public relations acceptable? u have ur answer, now if u expect an apology from DR i dont think u'll ever get one, u both over reacted and whats done is done, but both of u did what u thought was right, so i doubt either will admit he was wrong in any way shape or form now PLZ i'm BEGGING YOU just DROP IT!

[Darth_Seth]

The first post was not the rude one, the second was, and neither was a serious reply.

No, I never once made a sarcastic comment then said, "Just kidding." Whether I did or not is irrelevant, because DR did not make a sarcastic comment then say, "Just kidding." He made several rude, insulting, sarcastic comments, and never once even mitigated it at all.

I am an administrator and the Gold Accounts manager; nowhere in my job title does it suggest that I need to kiss some young, arrogant and pompous kid's ass

Call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure that's not sarcasm. That's not even "injecting some humor into was has typically been a flame bait type thread." It certainly has been a flaim bait thread, and it began with DR's second post. Yes, I can fault him for, as you say "telling it like it is." What DR did was make up things that he wished Shuichi had said, then tell it like he hoped it would've been. Whether you say we can expect an apology from DR or not, I think he should apologize. None of this would've been necessary, and I would've been totally satisfied, if DR had given a sweet simple answer like the one you gave. Now, whether he apologizes or not, I have lost almost all the respect I originally had for him, and am slowly losing respect for you too, drakonfire for trying to spin what DR said into something resembling proper communication with a customer.

[Shuichi]

No Drakon, I may not have ever dealt with 300,000 people before. But I have watched almost an entire population of a server QUIT after much less disrespect was shown to several guilds during my time with Dark Age of Camelot. After 478 people canceled their accounts, the Game Master, was suspended from within the company, and those people were all offered a free month if they came back, WITH an apology. This is the last example I am going to bring up, because frankly, you are wrong. Why do you feel the need to back him up so fiercely?

If he is as big, mature, respected, and respectful as you both revere him to be then why does he need someone’s little nephew to back him up on his message board?

shuichi here is the answer u were looking for the whole time

"Thanx but currently no more time will be devoted to the filter, words may be added or removed as updates r made, but the boot feature will never leave. and it is over all not a very high priority"

Call me crazy but somehow this just doesn’t do it for me. Unless you and DivineRight are one and the same.

and if this issue is no longer about the swear filter, why r we here? r we so intent upon defending our egos that we absolutely MUST rag on the guy who insulted us? real or imagined? can we just get over it plz?

This is about both now. This thread has still not received a decent respectful answer worth reading about the subject. I wish I could change the title of my thread to something more fitting.

You talk like everyone but me and a few other people on these threads are best friends with DivineRight and think he is just a total perfect God. Well my friend that is just not the case. The way I see it, is anyone who would of cared before, is either to afraid to get their IP banned, or just gave up because this game is not worth the time to them, or as I have also begun to realize, the administration just does not care about the concerns of their customers. I have gotten several PM’s and a phone call praising my stand against DivineRight, and they have all agreed with my so called “insult” to him.

Maybe it is just a case of the truth hurting?

I love how you both keep stating that he is just telling me how it is . This is beautiful because he did not refute ONE point of mine. He spouted utter rubbish out and then attempted to “tell me how it is”. If he had actually taken the time to read my posts and look at what I have said, he may have been able to tell me “just how it is”.

I don’t want an apology. Frankly I could care less. I got just as much sleep last night, knowing about this thread, as I did before I created it. What I DO want, however, is my respectful thought out post, which addresses my original post.

Have a great day ><.

[drakonfire]

first off i defend him because i think its the right thing to do, he and the other mods have taken a stand with the filter and they have caught more flak for it than anything i have EVER seen in my life

secondly would ppl stop comparing this game to anything else, there is NOTHING else like this game... and another thing about ur Dark Age analogy, what did that GM say or do? was he dissing on players or was he on a power trip? because frankly i dont really believe DR has shown THAT much disrespect, u may not like the guy but u dont have to deal with him if u dont want to, if u have a problem with ur gold account, then u have to deal with him, but otherwise there really isnt any reason for u to deal with him


this whole thing is so STUPID as to be ridiculous, u want a well thought out answer? DR GAVE U ONE! but it contained a perceived insult and thus u have to drag it out until u get an answer that doesnt contain an insult? what us ur DEAL?! DR gave u the answer u were looking for, thanx for ur input NO the filter ownt be changed anytime soon, the list of words filtered will probably change soon enough, several have come and gone and the filter is still less than 1 full month old (i think?)... i mean GOSH why can u not just take the answer givin to u?


and u say that DR is putting words in ur mouth? what about u saying DR didnt even read ur posts? if he hadnt even read ur posts how would he kno what ur concerns were? shisa dude cut the crap and just move on with life, u said u were sleeping just fine and i'll bet DR is too, and i'm also willing to bet that u'll sleep just fine even if u dont get what u want... gosh that sounds so childish, ur gonna conitnue this until u get what u want?

[Shuichi]

Drakon you make me laugh. That post was just so funny. I am not even going to refute it, it's not worth my time when you can't even read and comprehend the very first paragraph of a post you reply to.


:rolleyes:

http://www.hop.com/index.jhtml;jsessionid=FA5ODASD1VNIFQFIZDECFEWAVDE GIIV0?flashTest=true

Hope that helps ^

[drakonfire]

oh yes ur hilarious...


plz note my entire post is NOT about ur first paragraph


and all i asked for was more specifics, i've seen players show more disrespect than DR showed u who have no been booted... but u tell me a GM was rude to a bunch of guilds and they LEFT THE GAME? excuse me for wanting more details other than he was rude... thats a pretty sad excuse to leave methinks

[DivineRight]

I love how you went through all of your posts and edited out all of the incriminating evidence then got your little friend Seth to jump right in like the concerned customer he is. Its perfectly alright though, at least you get the point, thank you for taking out those stupid remarks about how if you want to talk about your Furgon's penis it is your right to do so here. Like I said before ETHICS, I don't need to do things like that to save face but I will address Seth's posts now:

"Hold on one freakin second. For about the 3rd time, SHUICHI IS ALL FOR A FILTER. He has never once said that he doesn't want a filter. All he asked for was a revision/clarification of the new system."

Right I never said he wanted to get rid of the filter either, what are you arguing about there? This guy wants a filter that fits what his idea of proper swear filter is and he wants the option of being able to turn it on and off. Whats the point of having one then? He asked for it and I told him no.

---------------------------------------------------
“Hey Shuichi, and others, thanks for your concern, we are buried way deep in our work right now, so this is not a main priority, if it will ever be.”
---------------------------------------------------
Again, why on earth would I ever say anything like that? Thats not the way I talk and it doesn't reflect the truth. What am I thanking him for? Gee, thanks for not reading the hundreds of other posts from the previous month and making me re-write them all over again. I commend you for over-looking some of the more obvious problems and taking me away from my work to respond personally to your posts!

Seth has been shooting me down left and right, calling me unfair and disrespectful but Shuichi is a perfect angel or in Seth's own words - "only human". Oh My God! Have you been reading his posts? Lets start breaking it down so that you two can understand it in more simple terms:

1)
----------------------------------------------------
"-It's called sarcasm. It is completely obvious that clans promote organization and competition."
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Wasn't this the reason you went all postal on me the first time? What you can use sarcasm but I can't now? Why did you post it if you already knew, just to be a smart ass? (wait is that being arrogant?) Right.

2) I said you were pompous & arrogant for thinking that you have the right to do as you wish here, when you do not. You edited all of your posts, just further proof that others can see. You did leave the stuff about what you thought was proper parenting, so at 20 years old how many children have you raised? Yes you worked in retail for a few years, how many businesses have you run and managed?

3)
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-I did not resort to name calling, I said you were acting like an asshole, not that you were one
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Hey Seth, you actually expect me to apologize after that? Shuichi I'm not sure where you come from but anywhere else in the world this is considered the same thing. As well, this is how I interpreted it, rather than apologizing for it you insult my intelligence by telling me that it is not the same thing.

4) No you don't continue to show me respect because if you did, you would of brought this to PM's rather than dragging it out over and over. Now you are insulting other members on the board for having common sense and understanding my posts. Nobody here has referred to me as a "God" and I have never alluded to anything like that. Again, another stupid remark that seems to just drip from you. Insinuating that Drakon and I are the same person, that is respectful? If Drakon is my nephew does that make Seth your cheerleader? I'm not the one who edited all of my posts and then made a new one asking for people to check what I wrote. Shuichi you are a drama queen.

4 points in this post is enough that makes it 5 points that I've refuted. If you want anymore just read through my old posts because I wrote them so that anyone with a grade 6 level of schooling could understand it. Do not waste my time anymore, I have already addressed the original request, which was sorry NO!

One thing I'm going to leave the two of you with is something about respect. If you speak to anyone in the military, an athlete or someone who is apart of a team, you ask them how respect works. It is always earned and never taken for granted. If you think that your $5 dollars buys my respect, it doesn't.

[Darth_Seth]

-He's not taking flak over the filter, he's taking flak because he was rude and insulting.

-If you even actually read Shuichi's post, he said

But I have watched almost an entire population of a server QUIT after much less disrespect was shown

He said much less, so how much disrespect you think there has been is irrelevant.

-DR did not give a well thought-out answer. He gave a rant that contained several "perceived insults."

I am an administrator and the Gold Accounts manager; nowhere in my job title does it suggest that I need to kiss some young, arrogant and pompous kid's ass.

There is a perceived insult right there. The essence of that sentence is, "I'm an important person, and I don't have time to deal with a peon like you." Sounds pretty insulting to me.

-As for DR putting words in Shuichi's mouth

Do you think allowing people to curse and swear are really going to make the game run smoother and be more fun? Allowing someone to use the word “gay” freely is better than a new unit?

If you can point out to me ANYWHERE IN THIS FREAKIN THREAD WHERE SHUICHI HAS SAID THIS I will be impressed. You know why? That's right, he never said that. Guess who did say it? You're right again, DR said it.

How do you expect me to take you seriously when what you are essentially doing is complaining about the fact that you can’t curse and swear?

Again, something that Shuichi said which must only show up when DivineRight looks at the thread, cause I sure as hell don't see it.

Drakon, since apparently you don't read posts before you reply to them either, why don't you just stop trying to explain DR's post and let him do it himself?

[Shuichi]

EDIT: Moved this down >< since I feel it is a new post.

[drakonfire]

Originally posted by Shuichi
EDIT: I stoped reading after that comment, FYI.

and u expect us to give a well thought out reply... what is this the self rightious i can do no wrong express? u acuse us of not reading ur threads (i've read them twice through with lots of skimming in between to make sure my posts were relevant) and then u dont bother to read ours? and u fracking admitted it too, now honestly how do u expect to be taken seriously anymore?



EDIT---

-As for DR putting words in Shuichi's mouth


quote:
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Do you think allowing people to curse and swear are really going to make the game run smoother and be more fun? Allowing someone to use the word “gay” freely is better than a new unit?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



If you can point out to me ANYWHERE IN THIS FREAKIN THREAD WHERE SHUICHI HAS SAID THIS I will be impressed. You know why? That's right, he never said that. Guess who did say it? You're right again, DR said it.



point out to me where the frack DR said shuichi said that? it was a freakin generalization, thus the term "SOMEONE"... read ur own quotes more carefully

[DivineRight]

One last point Shuichi, there is a well-known and respected gamer on this board named DWarrior. Those that know him should also remember that we banned him from the forums and took away his gold account. I can tell you that he single-handedly pays for more accounts than you do Shuichi (remember, I am the Gold accounts manager so I can see which Paypal account funds come out of).

"-Banning this ip, would result in several of your gold account users from being able to log in, just fyi."

Very big words! Which other accounts are you paying for? Whats more, we didn't even have to hesitate to ban him for being disrespectful to an administrator. Take a hint.

This has nothing to do with TAO anymore because we have delivered everything that was promised and more to you Shuichi. So do not for a second think that I have to put up with your arrogance and drama queen attitude.

[Darth_Seth]

I'm tired of telling drakon the same things over and over again. I'm gonna have to start quoting whole posts if he's going to take them out of context.

Shuichi doesn't pay for any other accounts, but I do, and so does S_K_O_F and probably several other people. We're all at the same university, with a virtual lan so that to the outside world, we all have the same IP. That's what he meant.

"Arrogance and drama queen attitude" and now threats? I read all of Shuichi's posts in this thread within minutes of him putting them up. Once again, the sarcasm and disrespect didn't start with Shuichi.

http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3708&perpage=15&pagenumber=3

^ last post on the page. If that wasn't some sarcasm and disrespect, I don't know what is.

I enjoy TAO immensely, but I really hope stuff like this doesn't happen a lot, or I fear that it's doomed to failure.

[Shuichi]

Lmao, check the edit dates, all mighty one; I haven’t edited out any "incriminating evidence".

You are pathetic sir.

Drakon talked about his uncle. Once again, you do not fully read posts.

EDIT AGAIN: Sorry I can't help but point out the stupidity this time around.

Right I never said he wanted to get rid of the filter either, what are you arguing about there?

What’s this?

You are so contradicting, one minute you are all for a curse-filter, the next minute you are claiming that it is your God-given right to spew profanity if you feel like it. Our filter gets our message across to our gamers quite successfully and efficiently.

^ 4th Page, 5th post.

Insinuating that Drakon and I are the same person, that is respectful?

First, how is this even disrespectful?

Call me crazy but somehow this just doesn’t do it for me. Unless you and DivineRight are one and the same.

Ok let me explain this for you. See this means, unless Drakon is you? Then the apology = ass to me :). Hope this clarifies.

Wasn't this the reason you went all postal on me the first time? What you can use sarcasm but I can't now? Why did you post it if you already knew, just to be a smart ass? (Wait is that being arrogant?) Right.

After your second post? You are damn right I can start being sarcastic with you.

I said you were pompous & arrogant for thinking that you have the right to do as you wish here, when you do not. You edited all of your posts, just further proof that others can see. You did leave the stuff about what you thought was proper parenting, so at 20 years old how many children have you raised? Yes you worked in retail for a few years, how many businesses have you run and managed?

Please show me where I stated that I had the right to do anything here and in game? Please? Here ill even quote old posts where I say just the opposite.1) I never claimed any rights about whether I should or shouldn’t be able to say things on YOUR game.
2) I do fully support a name filter....but I would love to see what admin has to say about my ideas.
3) -I never once said that it was my god given right to swear all I want in your game, actually I said just the opposite. I think 3 should be enough.

The only editing I have done is grammar, and spelling, and when I added that something was an example in my first post. You may however, THINK I edited them, since you never really read them fully the first time through.

Second, why would I only remove some of the, what you call, incriminating evidence, and not all of it? You are making yourself look like an ass I don't need to dishonestly help you.

Hey Seth, you actually expect me to apologize after that? Shuichi I'm not sure where you come from but anywhere else in the world this is considered the same thing. As well, this is how I interpreted it, rather than apologizing for it you insult my intelligence by telling me that it is not the same thing.

It isn't the same thing, whether you like to think it or not. Also please check the order of the posts, and how many sarcastic degrading replies you brought about before I said you were acting like a power tripping asshole?

which was sorry NO!

Woot, we're getting there DivineRight!

It is always earned and never taken for granted. If you think that your $5 dollars buys my respect, it doesn't.

Respect is a given, whether five dollars is involved or not. You respect people just by walking down the street and not punching them in the face because you had a bad day. You respect people all the time by not stealing their car. You respect people on the phone when they call you and got a wrong number, but kindly tell them they have the wrong number. You respect people all the time by keeping yourself clean, so you are not forcing people to smell your body odor. You respect people just by taking people seriously on a message board and posting a nice reply. Only one of these applies to you (that I know of).

Respect is everywhere, and yes, I do demand respect from you. It is a given of our society, whether it is on the internet or in real life. I seriously hope you show strangers in real life more respect than you do over the internet though.

Also I never said I was paying for more than one gold account. Several of us are behind a V-Lan (meaning the same IP).

This will be my last public response to anything anyone else posts about this thread, due to requests from un-named indivuduals (Who are not from within my V-Lan, and still agree with me).

[drakonfire]

roflolh!!!! this is hilarious... i take a direct quote from u and u say i'm taking it out of context... plz, stop, my sides cant take much more... no but seriously... where did i take anything out of context? and if i did (hmm... maybe i did? oh well, it happens to all of us) u probably did as well

as for the same IP stuff, *shrugs* they have banned entire skools before this, what so dif about a university?


threats... rofl... once more this is DR telling u how it is... he banned Dwarrior for this kind of crap, its only fair warning u that u r treading on very dangerous and thin ice... and u used that word sarcasm again... which started this whole thing! DR was sarcastic and shuichi for some reason couldnt take it, or took it as not just sarcastic but a personel insult or something (i still havent figured out why that was so insulting... *shrugs*)


and yes i have read DRs post... several times actually, no need to point it out


and what is with this passive "i really hope TAO doesnt fail because of inept management" (i'm paraphrasing) crap u and shuichi keep throwing out? TAO is in no danger of failing... it gets more satisfied customs all the time and those that leave r quickly replaced

[DivineRight]

Seth, then play the game as it was meant to be played. Stop wasting time here arguing with me...why are you arguing with me anyways? Its like you are trying to stick your nose into someone else's fight.

It is very possible to play a game on TAO without talking and it is 100% possible to do it without cursing. The filter is not going to change very much and that is something you will need to come to terms with, others already have Seth.

As for the beef between Shuichi and I, I'm surprised that you haven't realized something that many others like S_K_O_F and Resc have...I actually do read and respond to posts, I actually take the time to speak with my customers and I really do care about the growth of the community. Anywhere else, no ANYONE else (there is no way in hell Bills would of put up with all the trash that Shuichi dished out) would have simply deleted him or ignored him, especialy after the blatent disrespect he has shown. Keep in mind, he was asking me for my help, I never asked him for his input.

I'm closing this thread right here, everything that needs to be said has already been said.