PSST4 Draft

[Zander]

Punishment, how dare you clamm you beat him in those games?!

[|AFO|]

Congrats Punishment. Good to know you judge me by those friendly ( what i thought till now) games. I wont judge you for our last game, your dsm rush vs my turt. And ive not been flawlessed since 2003, so dont lie.

We were ( or it seems it was only me ) chilling in our games. I am a bit disapointed you are clamming you beat me in those games.

If in any case our team has to play vs afos team i would like to challenge you to a turt game.

Whoa now. Seem a little hypocritical there. You claim "friendly" wins on like... everybody. :p

[Junier]

For those selected by xEaglex, (Birds of Prey).
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/4856/junierbannerbirdofpreycvv3.png
Wear it with pride.

[Master TAO]

very nice junier. The banner rocks but our name is kinda weak heh. We should consider changing it.

Oh and lay off ragnarth people hes a good player, and ragnarth dont respond to them, its not worth it. There are a huge amount of players running around here that think they are better than they really are. Although AFO is not one of those, there are many that commented that are. It gives them a way to get in the limelight. Bringing you down and boosting themselves up.

AFO is just a prick lol.

[Duraza]

AFO's my prick.

[Sacred Silence]

AFO's my prick.

You were a steal.

[Rubbish]

High Heat was the best steal pick.

I hope Firebrand makes our team one of his fantastic userbars...

[|AFO|]

AFO's my prick.

Dude... That's low. I know you think I'm awesome and all, but its insulting to think that you think your prick is worthy enough to be named after me.

[Lord Shinok]

Chain shut up, you are not a vet by any means. Thanks :)

Lol. Owned.

/sex lucas

[Lord Shinok]

High Heat was the best steal pick.

I hope Firebrand makes our team one of his fantastic userbars...

Oh, he will! Did any of our guys ask him to make us userbar yet?

EDIt: Shit, I just realized I double posted. Epic fail for me. :dry:

[Zander]

When do we find out who we face? I need to start challenging people.

[The Butcher]

When do we find out who we face? I need to start challenging people.

A while,

Final rosters are due 1/25, i'd say at least 3 days after that.

[Zander]

The following nubs may consider themselves challenged!
(86) High Heat
(91) AlabamaBoy
(45) The Butcher
(28) gigolojlo
(110) Unforgottner
(65) Punishment
(41) The Arena

[Nitanius Nolund]

Let's put it this way:

Does anyone want to have any trades? If not, there's no point in waiting.

[Ol' Time]

Let's put it this way:

Does anyone want to have any trades? If not, there's no point in waiting.

They do.

[Rubbish]

Bax is going to trade gig for Lieu.

[Nitanius Nolund]

Gig is Bax's best friend. He wouldn't trade him for anything :p

[The Butcher]

I'd take that trade if I were bax :p

[Rubbish]

Gig is Bax's best friend. He wouldn't trade him for anything :p
And much less for Lieu...
I was joking.... ;)

[Duraza]

You were a steal.

it's ALOT better than being picked 26th, let me tell you that.

[One Last Chance]

Lol. Owned.

/sex lucas

LLRICH SUCKS, BAX'S TEAM FTW :) theres team spirit a-99, and Shinok and LLRICH, im calling u guys out in chains defense.

[|AFO|]

You fail.

Butch... Get on.

[Luzbel]

a legends vetaran.

You just went there, how do you consider yourself as veteran?, im not even a veteran there but im older than you, also if im not wrong, you started here in fps, right?

Pick 47 am i so bad yet? then ill need to play a lot in here :p

[Magician]

No he can't. I beat him 3 times in a row.. each by 7+ units and including a flawless in same side turtles just a week or two ago...



Truth.

It's just a crying shame you're TAL banned, eh?

HK's post in the TAL2 thread (http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1585516&postcount=533)

[Dream]

LLRICH SUCKS, BAX'S TEAM FTW :) theres team spirit a-99, and Shinok and LLRICH, im calling u guys out in chains defense.

Hey. As a team mate, I think i speak for most of us when I say can you please stop posting. Don't argue with these people. You are looking more foolish every post and making yourself look retarded.

Just have your game back you up, not your text.

[xEaglex]

These userbars rock.

[Rubbish]

A funny coincidence...
In Mith's PSST3 post-game analysis (http://tacticsarena.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35160&highlight=PSST) I was ranked 16th and in this PSST I was picked 16th :p.

[-Respect-]

http://i43.tinypic.com/2r5dirq.png

http://i42.tinypic.com/2mrtef5.png

Well I looked around for a good victori'as secret model picture I could use for a siggy/userbar, but in all honesty it's a fail. The images are either blurry, ugly, or stupid...Therefore I came out with that thingy. I'll be making /looking around for a better victoria's secret pic but it's not looking good, so for now if you want...use this. :cool:

Lemme get some opinions.

~Respect

[Justice]

Mav should trade someone for Pun

[Punishment]

It's just a crying shame you're TAL banned, eh?

HK's post in the TAL2 thread (http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1585516&postcount=533)

I'm not able to play until my ban is up, but since PSST will still be going on after 45 days (February 18th) I am still able to play in the later rounds.

The captains, knowing that I couldn't play until the second round basically, drafted me lower than they would have otherwise.

:eek:

[shurtugal]

Where are the matchups?

[Dark7]

hit me up in rev for invites to mavericks clan to try and get organized, so far were "The Mavsickles" but hopefully it will change when mav picks up some activity

[Ol' Time]

I'm not able to play until my ban is up, but since PSST will still be going on after 45 days (February 18th) I am still able to play in the later rounds.

The captains, knowing that I couldn't play until the second round basically, drafted me lower than they would have otherwise.

:eek:

Pun is entirely right. Get off his back Mag, it's not necessary.

[Mithrandir]

The Mavsickles.....:bigsmile::bigsmile::bigsmile:

I'm intimidated.

[Nitanius Nolund]

I extend the following challenges:

High Heat to karaoke
Mithrandir to blowing smoke rings
AFO at being white
Bax to a hoola contest

[Rubbish]

Thanks for the userbars Waqas, I didn't know you where participating on PSST.

[Master TAO]

11 players in each style and 1-2 bench for first round ftw? sound fun to anyone else? :)

[Big Zeus]

I extend the following challenges:

High Heat to karaoke
Mithrandir to blowing smoke rings
AFO at being white
Bax to a hoola contest

I didn't know Baxy could shake his booty that good!! :p

[Silver Coast]

http://i43.tinypic.com/2r5dirq.png

http://i42.tinypic.com/2mrtef5.png

Well I looked around for a good victori'as secret model picture I could use for a siggy/userbar, but in all honesty it's a fail. The images are either blurry, ugly, or stupid...Therefore I came out with that thingy. I'll be making /looking around for a better victoria's secret pic but it's not looking good, so for now if you want...use this. :cool:

Lemme get some opinions.

~Respect

Are you serious? Ever heard of Gizelle? Tom Brady's fiance? Holy christ, google that shit if you don't know who she is. She would do just fine for a userbar. :p

[Justice]

Are you serious? Ever heard of Gizelle? Tom Brady's fiance? Holy christ, google that shit if you don't know who she is. She would do just fine for a userbar. :p

Yeah I'm with you dude, I'm not even on the team and I could have done better with Paint and a picture of Tyra Banks or Heidi Klum ;)

[Nitanius Nolund]

The images are either blurry, ugly, or stupid...

http://cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/37/44/adriana-lima4.0.0.0x0.432x708.jpeg

How is Adriana Lima blurry, ugly, or stupid?

[-Respect-]

Yeah I'm with you dude, I'm not even on the team and I could have done better with Paint and a picture of Tyra Banks or Heidi Klum ;)

Okie Dokie, let's see you do better champ.

Edit - You can't work with that one....For a userbar. People don't udnerstand photoshop. And if you can...Then prove me wrong and make one :(

~Respect

[|AFO|]

Res is right. I looked too. =\

[Dark7]

LLRICH SUCKS, BAX'S TEAM FTW :) theres team spirit a-99, and Shinok and LLRICH, im calling u guys out in chains defense.

someones itching for a TAL ban

[Justice]

http://cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/37/44/adriana-lima4.0.0.0x0.432x708.jpeg

How is Adriana Lima blurry, ugly, or stupid?

I just nutted

[Maverik07]

Ahahahahaha

Team name: "I Just Nutted"

Any objections?

[BaxVarlet]

Ahahahahaha

Team name: "I Just Nutted"

Any objections?

Better make it before Dark finishes his mutiny.

[Maverik07]

Dark needs to go smoke a bowl and chill out.

Getting laid > TAO.

[Unforgottner]

Yes.
Get on Rev.

[Justice]

Ahahahahaha

Team name: "I Just Nutted"

Any objections?

Its just been made.

[One Last Chance]

someones itching for a TAL ban

why would i get TAL banned ?

[BaxVarlet]

13 itches? Please...

[Rubbish]

Dear lord.

I thought you guys could've at least beat us with name creativity/wittyness, but we're going to own the teams in all ways possible.
:p

[kingedward]

50? O.o

But this works well with my underdog scheme. ;p

[Rubbish]

50? O.o

But this works well with my underdog scheme. ;p
Yeah, you were a great steal pick too. :)

[trugreatness20]

Ahahahahaha

Team name: "I Just Nutted"

Any objections?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA YESSSSSSSSSSSSS

I cant lie about how much i love this name. Jesus you are the mang. :)

[Lord Shinok]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA YESSSSSSSSSSSSS

I cant lie about how much i love this name. Jesus you are the mang. :)

Victorious Secret is still the best. :cool2:

[Rubbish]

Victorious Secret is still the best. :cool2:
By far :cool:

[Toledo 13]

"I Just Nutted"? How very singular.

[trugreatness20]

Good point, it should be WE Just Nutted! Such a forward thinker.

[Nomadic Methods]

On paper he has a better turtle team right now... Though our turtle team's potential is quite high. It appears we would take free and grey though. But this is all speculation... Can't say for sure.

Buying into the hype eh?


Be thankful you arent on Eagle's or Bax's team at least :p

And lets hope we dont get AFO first round.

You would be riding pine on our teams, and good to see your showing fear of opponents this early :P

Our name has to top AFO's, since the other two names suck.

Since you consider AFO's team name good, I can expect that we won't see a quality choice for your team name

I Know he's hated here, but still, give the dude a break, your the only person i've seen harp on him this bad, what did he do to piss you off anyways ? and a word of advice, forgive and forget, it's a god damn game.

Is there a way Bax can drop this moron from the team. I think I speak for just about everyone on our team that this clown is making us look bad, not to mention I'm sure real "legends veterans" would feel the same.

LLRICH SUCKS, BAX'S TEAM FTW :) theres team spirit a-99, and Shinok and LLRICH, im calling u guys out in chains defense.

Go start a Chain user group, clan, make a I love chain userbar, and start a Chain thread. That should keep you occupied for a few months.

I extend the following challenges:

High Heat to karaoke
Mithrandir to blowing smoke rings
AFO at being white
Bax to a hoola contest

Can I get in on some of these. Especially the first 2

http://cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/37/44/adriana-lima4.0.0.0x0.432x708.jpeg

How is Adriana Lima blurry, ugly, or stupid?

Thanks, now I have to get off Forums and log into my special site for some extended "me-time"

[|AFO|]

Buying into the hype eh?

You're good at reading!

[Cross-Fire]

Hey guys i just cooked this up quick let me know what you think.

http://www.imagenerd.com/uploads/victorious_copy-T1B9s.gif (http://www.imagenerd.com/)

i think red may be a little bright but my lcd coloring is off.

http://www.imagenerd.com/uploads/victorious2_copy-693NI.gif (http://www.imagenerd.com/)
^
Slightly darker

[Magician]

Looks good.

Ol' Time: A ban is a ban, and he shouldn't have been included in the Draft, as he is TAL banned. Nothing more to say on the subject than that.

[Ol' Time]

Ahahahahaha

Team name: "I Just Nutted"

Any objections?

Holy crap thats awesome.

[-Respect-]

Hey guys i just cooked this up quick let me know what you think.

http://www.imagenerd.com/uploads/victorious_copy-T1B9s.gif (http://www.imagenerd.com/)

i think red may be a little bright but my lcd coloring is off.

http://www.imagenerd.com/uploads/victorious2_copy-693NI.gif (http://www.imagenerd.com/)
^
Slightly darker

Very nice, I suggest everyone change to that. :cool:

~Respect

[shurtugal]

Ahahahahaha

Team name: "I Just Nutted"

Any objections?

Ay.

Nubs in Banada Pajamas.

[Lord Shinok]

Hey guys i just cooked this up quick let me know what you think.

http://www.imagenerd.com/uploads/victorious_copy-T1B9s.gif (http://www.imagenerd.com/)

i think red may be a little bright but my lcd coloring is off.

http://www.imagenerd.com/uploads/victorious2_copy-693NI.gif (http://www.imagenerd.com/)
^
Slightly darker

Awesome! I'm gonna use that one. :D

[shurtugal]

Oh god damn change that signature.

[Lord Shinok]

Nope. Not until Soda takes his out, then I will take mine out. :)

[shurtugal]

:roulette:

[Wolfman]

wolfwolfwolf - who let the wolf out! (love to do that :P)

wolfy

[Lord Shinok]

wolfwolfwolf - who let the wolf out! (love to do that :P)

wolfy

You should get on Rev often and practice whatever style you plan on playing! :D

[Punishment]

sick sig man.

[Wolfman]

You should get on Rev often and practice whatever style you plan on playing! :D

dun think wolf need to practise if there is only 1 cleric unit left to place. :P

wolfy

[Soda]

Watch the language.

-Mag

[Lord Shinok]

Please don't quote swearing, thanks.

-Mag

[pils]

Soda takes things to seriously...

[StupidCows]

Question: What style are the bench games?

[Silver Coast]

Free, Turtle, or Grey?

They will be decided based on who's playing I suppose.

[Dark7]

wow i just realized victorious secret isnt even an original name lol. GG stealing a pro-halo team's name.

[|AFO|]

Um. I don't play halo. Lmao

[Silver Coast]

What Pro Halo 3 Team is called Victorious Secret? :dry:

The top Pro Teams are:

1. Str8 Rippin
2. Instict
3. Triggers Down
4. Final Boss
5. Carbon
6. Ambush
7. Status Quo

Not even sure if there is a Semi-Pro Team called Victorious Secret.

[Dark7]

neither do i... dont even have an x-box

[|AFO|]

Then what the hell are you talking about? Haha

[Dark7]

im saying that the professional halo 3 team "victorious secret" was made way before youre original team name.

[Silver Coast]

You should totally sue us then. :p

[Redux]

I will.

And don't worry, ours it TOTALLY original I'm sure.:rolleyes:

[Silver Coast]

Like TOOOTTTTAAALLLLYYYY!!!

[Ragnarth]

AFO you better pay the RIGHTS of Halo or ill report you.

[Xiahou Dun]

wow i just realized victorious secret isnt even an original name lol. GG stealing a pro-halo team's name.

So who cares about a Pro Halo Team happening to have the same name? It's not like they had any qualms about making Carbon and Status Quo...

[Redux]

Yeah, maybe you should sue them!

[machiavelli33]

Wow, I got picked first. I wasn't expecting that but at least I got the captain I wanted. =P

Good Luck everyone!

[Cannabis]

I'm so upset with how late I was picked. = ( Hah. Oh well, AFO thanks for picking me to be on winning team though. =D Victorious Secret FTW!

[Elphias Doge]

What Pro Halo 3 Team is called Victorious Secret? :dry:

The top Pro Teams are:

1. Str8 Rippin
2. Instict
3. Triggers Down
4. Final Boss
5. Carbon
6. Ambush
7. Status Quo

Not even sure if there is a Semi-Pro Team called Victorious Secret.

What about Classic? Anti-Gravity? (I know they're no longer teams but they're sick names :P)

[Nitanius Nolund]

Are you kidding me? Who cares if the name's been taken before? It's a name, and it's not like it's copyrighted just because a team on Halo uses it.

[The Professor?]

Haters.

[Xiahou Dun]

Are you kidding me? Who cares if the name's been taken before? It's a name, and it's not like it's copyrighted just because a team on Halo uses it.

People take Halo pros way too seriously.

[The Butcher]

wow i just realized victorious secret isnt even an original name lol. GG stealing a pro-halo team's name.

Nope... even worse

http://www.victorious-secret.org/forums/misc.php?do=page&template=index

It came from WoW :rofl:

But yeah.. anyone who really gets irked that someone has the name already should punch themselves in the face. Unless your name is Ackbackindinbin, I'm pretty sure your name has been used before too ;)

[Nitanius Nolund]

That's actually a really good site =/

[The Professor?]

And anyone who actually looks it up should punch themselves as well. :p

[Greed]

Mighty Morphin' Flower Arrangers. Brilliant, but too long.

[|AFO|]

I don't play WoW either. =p

[Silver Coast]

What about Classic? Anti-Gravity? (I know they're no longer teams but they're sick names :P)

Well if you wanna get technical, Final Boss is dead too. :p

OGRE 1 quit, OGRE 2 is a free agent, Neighbor left for Instinct, and Strongside went to join some other team with a bunch of new guys.

[Greed]

Well if you wanna get technical, Final Boss is dead too. :p

OGRE 1 quit, OGRE 2 is a free agent, Neighbor left for Instinct, and Strongside went to join some other team with a bunch of new guys.

You know you play Halo too much when...

[The Butcher]

And anyone who actually looks it up should punch themselves as well. :p

From the time I read the post to the time I got the search results from google was about... 8 seconds

Anyone who responds to a person who looks up something about people getting mad about something should punch themselves :huh: ?

[Xiahou Dun]

Anyone who actually punches themselves in the face just because people tell them to online should sandpaper their face off and post it on Youtube.

[Silver Coast]

You know you play Halo too much when...

Nah it's chill dude.

[The Creed]

Wrong thread. Woops

[Hatchet Klown]

Sorry for the late notice, but after review and much discussion between myself and Mag, Punishment is being withdrawn from PSST4 due to a TAL ban that started prior to the signups, and is still ongoing. After speaking with Meat, we'll find you a replacement.
Thanks in advance.

[Gypsy]

Mighty Morphin' Flower Arrangers. Brilliant, but too long.
Best clan name ever.

[BaxVarlet]

Best clan name ever.

Get on so I can invite you!

[Master TAO]

Sorry for the late notice, but after review and much discussion between myself and Mag, Punishment is being withdrawn from PSST4 due to a TAL ban that started prior to the signups, and is still ongoing. After speaking with Meat, we'll find you a replacement.
Thanks in advance.

I believe one team already had one extra person, bringing the total to 141.

Yea mavs team has 35, just switch puz over.

No need to get an extra

[|AFO|]

Sorry for the late notice, but after review and much discussion between myself and Mag, Punishment is being withdrawn from PSST4 due to a TAL ban that started prior to the signups, and is still ongoing. After speaking with Meat, we'll find you a replacement.
Thanks in advance.

The hell? You can't be serious.

EDIT: Yeah Master TAO that's genius! Give us a player that was drafted last. Makes perfect sense.

[greendaybum5]

I believe one team already had one extra person, bringing the total to 141.

Yea mavs team has 35, just switch puz over.

No need to get an extra

punishment was drafted in a decent spot...it's not like you can just replace him with the last person picked...

[skev21]

Can we have Mag, he wanted back in?

[Hatchet Klown]

No, it'll be a solid player. He/she may not be up to Puni's skill, but they will be able to participate the entire time. Should even out.

[|AFO|]

I don't agree at all. You can't allow him to sign up, get drafted, and then pull the plug. Doesn't make any sense.

[BaxVarlet]

AFO knew the risk of picking Pun. He took a gamble and it didn't pay off.

[skev21]

No, it'll be a solid player. He/she may not be up to Puni's skill, but they will be able to participate the entire time. Should even out.

That doesn't even out. Someone being able to participate the entire time doesn't help if they suck and lose straight away. And surely the risk of picking Pun wasn't that he'd be kicked out straight after the draft because the mods running TAL changed their opinion on whether it was right for him to participate? I figured the risk would be that either, without him being able to play for the first month our team could struggle as we're down a good player for that month or that he'd do something stupid and get rebanned.

[|AFO|]

That's not the gamble I took at all. The TAL ban was well before the draft... If he was unable to play in the later rounds after the ban was complete then he should not have been on the list at all.

[Hatchet Klown]

That's the mistake, he shouldn't have been allowed to signup at all. He misinterperted what I said and asked Bludz to sign him up with my permission.

Because there was a breakdown of communication we're going to give you another player for his spot, historically a player is not replaced in PSST.

[Redux]

Nope... even worse

http://www.victorious-secret.org/forums/misc.php?do=page&template=index

It came from WoW :rofl:

But yeah.. anyone who really gets irked that someone has the name already should punch themselves in the face. Unless your name is Ackbackindinbin, I'm pretty sure your name has been used before too ;)

Actually, your both wrong.

http://www.victoriassecret.com/

It came from a clothing line...Who would have thought?:rolleyes:

[Gypsy]

Get on so I can invite you!

I only have one rev account, I have to get out of my clan first, can you help me with this?

[|AFO|]

Who's the "replacement"?

[Dark7]

Sorry for the late notice, but after review and much discussion between myself and Mag, Punishment is being withdrawn from PSST4 due to a TAL ban that started prior to the signups, and is still ongoing. After speaking with Meat, we'll find you a replacement.
Thanks in advance.

owned

[Redux]

What the crap did he do to get TAL banned anyway?o.0

[Silver Coast]

Overall, the replacement will not be anyone near the calibur of Pun. If they were near his skill, they probably would have been signed up already. If it's an old player, rustyness may have taken the best of him, like monkus for example. Overall, I'm really interested to see the replacement of Pun, the best late pick even though he was supposedly TAL Banned.

[Rubbish]

That's kind of lame that you issue the ban after meat allowed him to sign up for PSST, and after he was drafted.

You and Mag where probably aware that he had signed up for PSST eventhough he "wasn't allowed", so you shouldn't have left him to be on the draft.

[|AFO|]

The only option I can see is you give us Mag at the end of Pun's ban.

[skev21]

The ban was issued before the tournament. But he was allowed to sign up, and they allowed him to be drafted, if that was going to be the decision then it should have been made before the draft.

[BaxVarlet]

I only have one rev account, I have to get out of my clan first, can you help me with this?

That I can.

[BaxVarlet]

The only option I can see is you give us Mag at the end of Pun's ban.

Hah. good one.

[|AFO|]

Hah. You're ugly and your mother doesn't love you.

[Greed]

Hah. You're ugly and your mother doesn't love you.

You're right. His mother loves me!

[Cannabis]

Pfft... This PSST just got hella heaty. No Pun?! I'm pissed.

[Silver Coast]

Yeah well. Truth be told, I know everyone not on AFO's Team is relieved. Pun is a great player that we could have really used in this tournament, even if we couldn't use him for the whole time.

[Mithrandir]

This is the worst tournament call I have ever seen, with the sole exception of Bottle's actions during the legends PSST.

Pun signed up well before the draft. If you didn't want him to play, you had ample time to remove him before the draft took place. Now that the draft has taken place, to simply remove him is blatantly, horrifically unjust. If anyone should be removed from the tournament, it should be ninai, who has an invalid application (see his sign up post) and who wasn't placed on the signup list.

This is ridiculous, particularly considering a player of Pun's caliber cannot be replaced even by Magician. I don't know of a player not signed up that is active and equal to him in skill.

If you want to punish Pun, then punish him not his team. Kick him out of other TAL tournaments, ones that won't result in blatant unfairness. If you abide by this call, you toss the entire PSST4 results whatever they are and malign this tournament to questions of what would have happened if it had actually been handled fairly, just like the legends PSST.

[Silver Coast]

And Mith comes to save the day!

Thank you Mith. Couldn't have put it better myself.

[Rubbish]

This is the worst tournament call I have ever seen, with the sole exception of Bottle's actions during the legends PSST.

Pun signed up well before the draft. If you didn't want him to play, you had ample time to remove him before the draft took place. Now that the draft has taken place, to simply remove him is blatantly, horrifically unjust. If anyone should be removed from the tournament, it should be ninai, who has an invalid application (see his sign up post) and who wasn't placed on the signup list.

This is ridiculous, particularly considering a player of Pun's caliber cannot be replaced even by Magician. I don't know of a player not signed up that is active and equal to him in skill.

If you want to punish Pun, then punish him not his team. Kick him out of other TAL tournaments, ones that won't result in blatant unfairness. If you abide by this call, you toss the entire PSST4 results whatever they are and malign this tournament to questions of what would have happened if it had actually been handled fairly, just like the legends PSST.
Sums it all up; well said, Mith.

[Zander]

Let him play but don't give him TAL points for his achievements. Mith's right, if he wasn't allowed to play he shouldn't have been eligible in the draft. Is there any point in trying to persuade here(Whoever you decision makers are, i don't know), or is your decision final?

[-Respect-]

This is the worst tournament call I have ever seen, with the sole exception of Bottle's actions during the legends PSST.

Pun signed up well before the draft. If you didn't want him to play, you had ample time to remove him before the draft took place. Now that the draft has taken place, to simply remove him is blatantly, horrifically unjust. If anyone should be removed from the tournament, it should be ninai, who has an invalid application (see his sign up post) and who wasn't placed on the signup list.

This is ridiculous, particularly considering a player of Pun's caliber cannot be replaced even by Magician. I don't know of a player not signed up that is active and equal to him in skill.

If you want to punish Pun, then punish him not his team. Kick him out of other TAL tournaments, ones that won't result in blatant unfairness. If you abide by this call, you toss the entire PSST4 results whatever they are and malign this tournament to questions of what would have happened if it had actually been handled fairly, just like the legends PSST.

Well put Mith.

~Respect

[Toledo 13]

Punishment's team shouldn't be subject to Punishment for choosing an eligible draft pick. No Pun intended.

[Mithrandir]

Punishment's team shouldn't be subject to Punishment for choosing an eligible draft pick. No Pun intended.

You are amazing. I love you.

[BaxVarlet]

AFO knowingly picked someone who was TAL banned.

Not seeing this bite him in the ass is no one's fault but his.

[Rubbish]

Punishment's team shouldn't be subject to Punishment for choosing an eligible draft pick. No Pun intended.
Haha.

EDIT: Bax, AFO picked someone who was temporarily TAL banned which is completely different. He was going to be allowed to play in the tournament after his ban lapse passed; he wasn't really risking on losing a player. You're just arguing because his ban benefits you and your team, but you know that him being banned AFTER the draft is extremely unfair.

[Zander]

AFO knowingly picked someone who was TAL banned.

Not seeing this bite him in the ass is no one's fault but his.
Meat.eater knowingly put someone who was TAL banned into the draft, wouldn't that logic follow to see this ordeal bite him in the ass?
No offense to meat. <_<

[Mithrandir]

AFO knowingly picked someone who was TAL banned.

Not seeing this bite him in the ass is no one's fault but his.

The fact that he was allowed in the draft implied that he was being allowed to play after his ban was up. If Meat is honest, he will confirm this. The understanding was that he could play eventually, just not until his ban was up. Otherwise, he wouldn't have been in the draft.

[Xiahou Dun]

AFO knowingly picked someone who was TAL banned.

Not seeing this bite him in the ass is no one's fault but his.

AFO knowingly picked someone who was very likely to get Re-Banned for his actions. But after being allowed to join the tournament despite his ban it's no fault of AFO's that he picked him. If Pun had done something else silly and then been told he couldn't play in the PSST I'm sure AFO would be dissapointed but have no grievance against them for their decision. But at the end of the day a decision to let someone join despite their actions previously should be final. nobody should be able to reverse it.

Not even you.

You hurt Legends feelings Mith. but meh i agree with Bottle's decision with Gold jumpa being rather stupid and self serving, but you mentioned decisions in plural. I can';t recall any otehr really bad calls.

[Nomadic Methods]

We will give you OLC as a replacement AFO. You can thank us later

[Geoffrey]

Rofl. Wouldn't be PSST without this drama. Lets just do this.:)

[Greed]

This is the worst tournament call I have ever seen, with the sole exception of Bottle's actions during the legends PSST.

Pun signed up well before the draft. If you didn't want him to play, you had ample time to remove him before the draft took place. Now that the draft has taken place, to simply remove him is blatantly, horrifically unjust. If anyone should be removed from the tournament, it should be ninai, who has an invalid application (see his sign up post) and who wasn't placed on the signup list.

This is ridiculous, particularly considering a player of Pun's caliber cannot be replaced even by Magician. I don't know of a player not signed up that is active and equal to him in skill.

If you want to punish Pun, then punish him not his team. Kick him out of other TAL tournaments, ones that won't result in blatant unfairness. If you abide by this call, you toss the entire PSST4 results whatever they are and malign this tournament to questions of what would have happened if it had actually been handled fairly, just like the legends PSST.

We had four or five of our players disqualified in last year's PSST before the tournament even started. So, I think you should refrain from throwing around the term fair, unless you want to be considered a hypocrite. Plus, we didn't even get an opportunity to have replacements. Sure, they weren't exactly in the same boat as Pun, but they did fit under the TAL ban category. Maybe this time you'll get to experience the disadvantage we did and understand where we were coming from when we complained.

In regards to Ninai, I believe it's your own captain's fault for not carefully checking all of the posts in the sign-up thread, rather than relying on the list. It simply demonstrates he was unprepared. The information available to Bax, which allowed him to pick Ninai, was also available to AFO and the other two captains. If they truly cared, they would have taken the necessary time to read through everything. Sorry.

[-Respect-]

Punishment's team shouldn't be subject to Punishment for choosing an eligible draft pick. No Pun intended.

Lol...Amazing ^^

AFO knowingly picked someone who was TAL banned.

Not seeing this bite him in the ass is no one's fault but his.

Okay so Mods all saw the drafts...They saw pun on it....they saw pun get drafted...They saw AFO tell Pun no funny business "or else" Pun agreed. Mods all saw that then 32 hours later the same mods say "he knew the risk (AFO)" What risk...The little "catch" you guys put in the draft pool didn't you guys know the risk yourself before you added him, you guys had ample time to see think and take action.

It's like the Akon trial...He was supposed to know the girl was 14, in a 21 and over club. alolol

~Respect

[Big Zeus]

With all your respect bros (Mag and Mike), I don't think that banning Pun at this point from PSST4 is the right thing to do. He is serving his time right now, not being able to play until what...next month??

Note that I'm not even part of their team, but banning him from this tourney after letting him sign up, brings around some unnecessary heat. We should let this competition to run smoothly just the way it was.

Thats what I think is the fair thing to do. The Kid was banned until certain date?? He shouldn't be allowed to play until then... No one told him he couldn't sign up for this tourney, and if he did, he could play until that certain date?? Then it is too late to take away what he/we all believed was the right thing in the first place...

Those are my two cents. Punishment shouldn't have been allowed to sign up in the first place, but he did and there were no complaints or actions taken on time. It is too late now dudes, too late...

To AFO...keep dreaming about Maggy being a replacement!! :p

[meat.eater]

The fact that he was allowed in the draft implied that he was being allowed to play after his ban was up. If Meat is honest, he will confirm this. The understanding was that he could play eventually, just not until his ban was up. Otherwise, he wouldn't have been in the draft.

Please don't question my integrity on this matter. Pun was TAL banned but not put on the "TAL Banned Lst" so I did not know that he was. Not being on the TAL Banned list is a void in communications, yes, but it doesn't justify someone being unbanned.

When I learned that Pun was TAL banned, by Pun himself, I was informed (also by Pun himself) that he was allowed to play after his ban period was up so was still draft eligible. Any conversations between Pun and any other mod I do not have record of.

I do not run TAL. I volunteered to host PSST. Do not make this about me. This is an administration call by the individuals that run TAL, and I do not have the jurisdiction to tell them otherwise. Partly because I don't actually run TAL, but mostly because I haven't dealt with Pun or this situation AT ALL.

Here's what I do know:
1) AFO claimed it was a high risk to even take Pun because nobody knew if he'd even last without getting banned. This situation, from the sounds of it, is simply someone getting banned.
2) Traditionally, people that are banned from tournaments aren't given replacements. HK knows there was a bit fo a meltdown in communication so offered to find a replacement. Pretty generous if you ask me.
3) When I brought up Webguy to possibly add a late candidate (to give us an even number), the captains were entirely against it with the notion that Webguy was "about a 70's level pick" (ie: too good to be randomly assigned to a team as a last pick). Pun was 65th. I don't see this as that big of an issue.

As for Ninai: That WAS my fault. He did post essentially in the correct format and I simply missed it to adding to the main list. I admit my mistake, but my mistake is not great enough to deny Ninai the ability to play in this tournament. That issue is closed. And that issue IS in my jurisdiction to close it.

[skev21]

Webguy is about as useful as Pun with just a wisp.

[Ol' Time]

Webguy is about as useful as Pun with just a wisp.

I didn't know he was that good.

[Mithrandir]

We had four or five of our players disqualified in last year's PSST before the tournament even started. So, I think you should refrain from throwing around the term fair, unless you want to be considered a hypocrite.
Interesting how an argument by analogy becomes weak when the analogy is a poor one. You had guys disqualified because they signed up and multiple accounts. That is a very different situation.

[Magician]

That's kind of lame that you issue the ban after meat allowed him to sign up for PSST, and after he was drafted.

You and Mag where probably aware that he had signed up for PSST eventhough he "wasn't allowed", so you shouldn't have left him to be on the draft.

I wasn't aware Punishment signed up for PSST until I saw the draft. Hence my "you're TAL banned" comment earlier in the thread.

This is the worst tournament call I have ever seen, with the sole exception of Bottle's actions during the legends PSST.

Pun signed up well before the draft. If you didn't want him to play, you had ample time to remove him before the draft took place. Now that the draft has taken place, to simply remove him is blatantly, horrifically unjust. If anyone should be removed from the tournament, it should be ninai, who has an invalid application (see his sign up post) and who wasn't placed on the signup list.

This is ridiculous, particularly considering a player of Pun's caliber cannot be replaced even by Magician. I don't know of a player not signed up that is active and equal to him in skill.

If you want to punish Pun, then punish him not his team. Kick him out of other TAL tournaments, ones that won't result in blatant unfairness. If you abide by this call, you toss the entire PSST4 results whatever they are and malign this tournament to questions of what would have happened if it had actually been handled fairly, just like the legends PSST.

I agree action should have been taken before the draft occured - however I did not know Punishment had signed up to participate. When I heard HK "allowed" punishment to participate (which clearly he didn't...), I was shocked that he didn't ask for a second opinion from myself. Miscommunication aside, Punishment is knowingly TAL banned, and shouldn't have been allowed to signup. Why meat allowed his signup to count - when he knew he was TAL banned - I don't know.

*sigh*

[One Last Chance]

This is the worst tournament call I have ever seen, with the sole exception of Bottle's actions during the legends PSST.

Pun signed up well before the draft. If you didn't want him to play, you had ample time to remove him before the draft took place. Now that the draft has taken place, to simply remove him is blatantly, horrifically unjust. If anyone should be removed from the tournament, it should be ninai, who has an invalid application (see his sign up post) and who wasn't placed on the signup list.

This is ridiculous, particularly considering a player of Pun's caliber cannot be replaced even by Magician. I don't know of a player not signed up that is active and equal to him in skill.

If you want to punish Pun, then punish him not his team. Kick him out of other TAL tournaments, ones that won't result in blatant unfairness. If you abide by this call, you toss the entire PSST4 results whatever they are and malign this tournament to questions of what would have happened if it had actually been handled fairly, just like the legends PSST.

i may be on bax's team, but i agree with these guys

[Greed]

Interesting how an argument by analogy becomes weak when the analogy is a poor one. You had guys disqualified because they signed up and multiple accounts. That is a very different situation.

Not entirely, but even so, I admitted they were different. And they weren't all disqualified for that reason.

[meat.eater]

I wasn't aware Punishment signed up for PSST until I saw the draft. Hence my "you're TAL banned" comment earlier in the thread.



Greed brings up a good counter argument, concerning PSST3. With that said, I agree action should have been taken before the draft occured - however I did not know Punishment had signed up to participate. When I heard HK "allowed" punishment to participate (which clearly he didn't...), I was shocked that he didn't ask for a second opinion from myself. Miscommunication aside, Punishment is knowingly TAL banned, and shouldn't have been allowed to signup. Why meat allowed his signup to count - when he knew he was TAL banned - I don't know.

*sigh*

Read my post. I did not know he was TAL banned. At all.

[Nitanius Nolund]

Give AFO's team Ninai.

[Greed]

Give AFO's team Ninai.

How does that make any sense? I'll go ahead and assume this post is a joke.

[Xiahou Dun]

Read my post. I did not know he was TAL banned. At all.

How did you not know? It was mentioned in the signup thread. Which you definately should have been reading. Did you miss that as well as Ninai's signup? Because if you saw it you really shoulda spoke with HK to clear it up ebfore adding him. If you didn't see it then you weren't doing a very good job with your signup thread.

[skev21]

Because if they'd made the decision at the right time, during pick 65 Ninai would have been on the draft list, and we think he's probably the best player you picked up after 65. So it kinda does make sense, a little bit.

[Mithrandir]

Please don't question my integrity on this matter.
I apologize for the "if meat is honest comment." It was unnecessary, unfounded, and unclassy. I'm very angry about all of this, and I lashed out at you. Please forgive me.

Pun was TAL banned but not put on the "TAL Banned Lst" so I did not know that he was. Not being on the TAL Banned list is a void in communications, yes, but it doesn't justify someone being unbanned.

When I learned that Pun was TAL banned, by Pun himself, I was informed (also by Pun himself) that he was allowed to play after his ban period was up so was still draft eligible. Any conversations between Pun and any other mod I do not have record of.

For the record, this is why I claimed you would uphold "if you were honest."

1) AFO claimed it was a high risk to even take Pun because nobody knew if he'd even last without getting banned. This situation, from the sounds of it, is simply someone getting banned.
Taking Pun was a risk because he's a loose cannon and is liable to do something stupid and get himself banned again. But that is very different than him doing nothing wrong since the draft and then being banned, unfairly hurting our team. We drafted him under the I think extremely reasonable assumption that drafted players would be allowed to play, barring actions since the draft disqualifying them (such as, signing up under multiple accounts).
2) Traditionally, people that are banned from tournaments aren't given replacements. HK knows there was a bit fo a meltdown in communication so offered to find a replacement. Pretty generous if you ask me.
Traditionally, people are banned from tournaments for actions since the tournament started, not for previous actions. So I don't find it generous at all to take one of our best players away and replace him with someone not nearly as good.
3) When I brought up Webguy to possibly add a late candidate (to give us an even number), the captains were entirely against it with the notion that Webguy was "about a 70's level pick" (ie: too good to be randomly assigned to a team as a last pick). Pun was 65th. I don't see this as that big of an issue.
Come on, that isn't fair. Pun was a 65th pick, but he was a huge steal. He's the caliber of a 10-20 pick.
As for Ninai: That WAS my fault. He did post essentially in the correct format and I simply missed it to adding to the main list. I admit my mistake, but my mistake is not great enough to deny Ninai the ability to play in this tournament. That issue is closed. And that issue IS in my jurisdiction to close it.
Again, note the context in which I bring up Ninai. I don't want to ban Ninai, but I do point out that there are fair grounds to ban him, namely that his application post was not in the proper format. So the suggestion that it's just the other captains' fault for not noticing him is invalid, because his not being in the draft list would just make me think he wasn't eligible because of an invalid application.

NOW, I am NOT saying let's ban Ninai. I think that'd be unfair to Bax's team, because it costs them a good player and there isn't any way to replace him with the way the draft system works. My point is that legally speaking, it would be allowed to ban him. The contrast is that Pun is being banned, who made a valid application and was approved on the draft list, while Ninai is not, who did not make a valid application and was not approved on the draft list.

Edit: One more comment about how we're being offered a replacement which should be considered generous: in the past, people are banned for their own mistakes. In this case, the injustice is due to administration's mistake, hence it is reasonable to expect the administration to fix it and give reasonable compensation to those they have wronged.

[meat.eater]

How did you not know? It was mentioned in the signup thread. Which you definately should have been reading. Did you miss that as well as Ninai's signup? Because if you saw it you really shoulda spoke with HK to clear it up ebfore adding him. If you didn't see it then you weren't doing a very good job with your signup thread.

Because the extent of my reading of the sign up threads was sign ups. Imagine that.

I knew he was forum banned at the time, which si why I let Blud sign him up, but I did not know he was (slash should have been) TAL banned until yesterday.

[Greed]

Again, note the context in which I bring up Ninai. I don't want to ban Ninai, but I do point out that there are fair grounds to ban him, namely that his application post was not in the proper format. So the suggestion that it's just the other captains' fault for not noticing him is invalid, because his not being in the draft list would just make me think he wasn't eligible because of an invalid application.

NOW, I am NOT saying let's ban Ninai. I think that'd be unfair to Bax's team, because it costs them a good player and there isn't any way to replace him with the way the draft system works. My point is that legally speaking, it would be allowed to ban him. The contrast is that Pun is being banned, who made a valid application and was approved on the draft list, while Ninai is not, who did not make a valid application and was not approved on the draft list.

He did post in the proper format. However, meat simply missed it. Your argument is false.

[Baseballboy]

Awesome! Thanks for picking me.

[meat.eater]

I apologize for the "if meat is honest comment." It was unnecessary, unfounded, and unclassy. I'm very angry about all of this, and I lashed out at you. Please forgive me.

Taking Pun was a risk because he's a loose cannon and is liable to do something stupid and get himself banned again. But that is very different than him doing nothing wrong since the draft and then being banned, unfairly hurting our team. We drafted him under the I think extremely reasonable assumption that drafted players would be allowed to play, barring actions since the draft disqualifying them (such as, signing up under multiple accounts).

Traditionally, people are banned from tournaments for actions since the tournament started, not for previous actions. So I don't find it generous at all to take one of our best players away and replace him with someone not nearly as good.

Come on, that isn't fair. Pun was a 65th pick, but he was a huge steal. He's the caliber of a 10-20 pick.

Again, note the context in which I bring up Ninai. I don't want to ban Ninai, but I do point out that there are fair grounds to ban him, namely that his application post was not in the proper format. So the suggestion that it's just the other captains' fault for not noticing him is invalid, because his not being in the draft list would just make me think he wasn't eligible because of an invalid application.

NOW, I am NOT saying let's ban Ninai. I think that'd be unfair to Bax's team, because it costs them a good player and there isn't any way to replace him with the way the draft system works. My point is that legally speaking, it would be allowed to ban him. The contrast is that Pun is being banned, who made a valid application and was approved on the draft list, while Ninai is not, who did not make a valid application and was not approved on the draft list.

First of all, thanks for apologizing.

Second of all, If you want to get technical, Puns sign up wasn't really valid because he didn't actually sign up. I decided to be nice. Is that relevant to the issue, no, not really. But if we're going to play the semantics game, that's an argument that you can't really use.

Third, I understand the frustration of everyone on this issue. But imagine you in the same position, Mith. What if you had banned a player and through some sort of SNAFU of communication, that person weaseled (now I admit that there was some meltdown on the administrations side of this, but Pun certainly knew he was TAL banned and weaseled his way into still being involved) into a tournament that you weren't running... then you discovered they were in that tournament DURING their ban period... how would you react? Nobody is trying to punish AFO's team. But why on earth should people be rewarding Pun?

Honestly, I have no problem with Pun showing up several weeks late. But I do have a problem with the communication of the administration AND the weaseling of Pun.

Compromise: Pun cannot participate in Round 1. At all.

[Mithrandir]

He did post in the proper format. However, meat simply missed it. Your argument is false.

Right format from first post of meat’s first thread: Known Name: (Player W)
Revelations Account Used for PPST4: (Player M)
Personal Best Styles (Rank from 1-10 in terms of skill... 10 being highest): (Style:#), (Style:#), (Style:#)
Additional Comments : (Comments)

Ninai’s sign up post from the same thread: I'd like to join this.
Grey 9 Free 4 Turt 5

[meat.eater]

Right format from first post of meat’s first thread: Known Name: (Player W)
Revelations Account Used for PPST4: (Player M)
Personal Best Styles (Rank from 1-10 in terms of skill... 10 being highest): (Style:#), (Style:#), (Style:#)
Additional Comments : (Comments)

Ninai’s sign up post from the same thread:

A lot of people deviated from that. Majorly or minorly. The most important part was the style ranking, which he had.

I require formats for my tourneys not just to be an ass, but so I can find the posts that are necessary when I skim the thread. His sign up is valid. That's my call, not yours. However, it deviated from the norm just enough for me to miss it. Which is my fault. Not Ninai's.

Like I said: that conversation is closed.

[skev21]

then you discovered they were in that tournament DURING their ban period...

He wasn't going to play DURING that ban period. And everyone was lead to believe that was the case. I think using the word weasled is a bit harsh to. If you enjoy playing this game, wouldn't you try and make a case for yourself to play.

[Silver Coast]

Pfff. This is just great.

This isn't even drama, I don't even know what to call this..

[Mithrandir]

Third, I understand the frustration of everyone on this issue. But imagine you in the same position, Mith. What if you had banned a player and through some sort of SNAFU of communication, that person weaseled (now I admit that there was some meltdown on the administrations side of this, but Pun certainly knew he was TAL banned and weaseled his way into still being involved) into a tournament that you weren't running... then you discovered they were in that tournament DURING their ban period... how would you react? Nobody is trying to punish AFO's team. But why on earth should people be rewarding Pun?

Honestly, I have no problem with Pun showing up several weeks late. But I do have a problem with the communication of the administration AND the weaseling of Pun.
This is fair, and it sucks for everyone. But if you want to punish Pun without punishing AFO's team, then punish Pun for giving him a TAL ban for twice as long, after PSST finishes, and he only gets to be in PSST during PSST, no other TAL tournaments. That's reasonable, I think.

Compromise: Pun cannot participate in Round 1. At all.
This still punishes us more than it does Pun. I think my alternative is significantly more reasonable. My alternative allows the tournament to continue in a way that is fair, while duly punishing the guilty party.

[BaxVarlet]

Pun didn't sign up in the proper format Mith, HE didn't sign up at all. I guess he shouldn't be allowed to participate either...Oh wait, he's already not allowed to.

Do you guys even remember why Pun was TAL banned? I find it funny you all rush to his side when it benefits you, but before the PSST, you would have laughed at the fact of him playing in TAL tournies.

[meat.eater]

He wasn't going to play DURING that ban period. And everyone was lead to believe that was the case. I think using the word weasled is a bit harsh to. If you enjoy playing this game, wouldn't you try and make a case for yourself to play.

Players are disallowed to SIGN UP for tournaments when they are banned. That is how TAL has always been.

[Mithrandir]

A lot of people deviated from that. Majorly or minorly. The most important part was the style ranking, which he had.

I require formats for my tourneys not just to be an ass, but so I can find the posts that are necessary when I skim the thread. His sign up is valid. That's my call, not yours. However, it deviated from the norm just enough for me to miss it. Which is my fault. Not Ninai's.

Like I said: that conversation is closed.

Like I said, I'm not trying to get Ninai banned. I just hope I get to play him myself.:)

[Silver Coast]

That was just cold and dirty.

[Xiahou Dun]

Because the extent of my reading of the sign up threads was sign ups. Imagine that.

I knew he was forum banned at the time, which si why I let Blud sign him up, but I did not know he was (slash should have been) TAL banned until yesterday.

Well that's a very bad call on your part. I always read all the posts in not just the signup thread, but any thread related to the tournament I am running.

If you're already reading the thread for signups anyway you should defnately be checking the rest of the posts. Another player might be pointing out something important to you like that player being banned or a secret account of someone already signed up or anything you need to know. Missing it could lead to massive complications later which could easily have been avoided. I suggest you do so in the future.

[meat.eater]

Well that's a very bad call on your part. I always read all the posts in not just the signup thread btu any thread related to the tournament I am running.

If you're already reading the thread for signups anyway you should defnately be checking the rest of the posts. Another player might be pointing out something important to you like that player being banned or a secret account of someone already signed up or anything you need to know. Missing it could lead to massive complications later which could easily have been avoided. I suggest you do so in the future.

Thanks for your suggestion, but I don't plan on it. There's a reason I make people post in a format. It allows me to skim.

[BaxVarlet]

Well that's a very bad call on your part. I always read all the posts in not just the signup thread, but any thread related to the tournament I am running.

If you're already reading the thread for signups anyway you should defnately be checking the rest of the posts. Another player might be pointing out something important to you like that player being banned or a secret account of someone already signed up or anything you need to know. Missing it could lead to massive complications later which could easily have been avoided. I suggest you do so in the future.

Don't be a self-righteous prick. You've never run a tournament like the PSST, and comparing any tournament to it is silly. Reading every post in all the PSST threads would over-monopolize anyone's time.

[Xiahou Dun]

Don't be a self-righteous prick. You've never run a tournament like the PSST, and comparing any tournament to it is silly. Reading every post in all the PSST threads would over-monopolize anyone's time.

The fact I have never run the PSST makes my suggestion invalid? At least read the whole signup thread. Reading a thread at least carefully enough that you don't miss anything important really doesn't take that much more time then just reading the signups.

[Toledo 13]

Why not just allow Punishment to play in the tournament without receiving any TAL points? The intention of his ban was to prevent him from improving his ranking in the TAL, not to prevent him from having fun.

[Magician]

Pun didn't sign up in the proper format Mith, HE didn't sign up at all. I guess he shouldn't be allowed to participate either...Oh wait, he's already not allowed to.

Do you guys even remember why Pun was TAL banned? I find it funny you all rush to his side when it benefits you, but before the PSST, you would have laughed at the fact of him playing in TAL tournies.

Unfortunately, Hatch didn't see eye to eye with me on this, and unbanned Pun and mantis (without involving me, the person who banned both of them - yes I'm still fuming about that. Anyway).

Any complaints should be directed at Hatch and myself, as we're the ones causing the drama. meat didn't know, and that was our fault for not communicating.

I agree that Pun should not be allowed to participate in Round 1 - technically he shouldn't be allowed to participate at all, so count yourselves lucky on that. I will discuss with Hatch when I see him about extending his TAL ban for participating in this tournament.

[Mithrandir]

There's nothing reasonable about letting somebody play who actually shouldn't have anything to do with TAL at the moment. That kind of defeats the purpose of banning. He should not be allowed to earn TAL point at all. For himself or for anyone else.

Ideally speaking, I agree. But my suggestion is significantly more fair than any other I've heard yet, because it leaves the integrity of PSST intact, and punishes Punishment without punishing anyone else. Pun can't earn TAL points and is basically TAL banned from everything but PSST for the rest of the season. Not ideal, but I think it's the only fair solution.

[Magician]

Why not just allow Punishment to play in the tournament without receiving any TAL points? The intention of his ban was to prevent him from improving his ranking in the TAL, not to prevent him from having fun.

The intention of his original ban was to punish him for using a mod-account in a malicious manner. The original ban placed by me was for the entirety of Season 2, which HK graciously shortened, and gave Pun one last chance. He didn't take it, and got rebanned. Nothing to do with accumulating TAL points, or TAL in general. His actions warrented a severe ban, and thus he shouldn't be allowed to participate.

I think the compromise is fair. I realise others will see otherwise, and all power to them. Remember: TAL is a priveledge - not a right.

[BaxVarlet]

Why not just allow Punishment to play in the tournament without receiving any TAL points? The intention of his ban was to prevent him from improving his ranking in the TAL, not to prevent him from having fun.

You couldn't be more wrong.

The purpose of a TAL ban is to show that Pun's behavior and overall stupid immaturity will not be tolerated.

People who are currently TAL banned shouldn't be able to sign-up or play in any TAL tournaments. I know this, AFO knows this, Pun knows this EVERYONE knows this.

I saw Bludz signing up Pun and thought it was a complete joke. I didn't put any more thought into it and kept reading the thread.

I thought it was even funnier when Pun was on the draft list. I didn't realize any other captain would be stupid enough to draft Pun.

[Magician]

Ideally speaking, I agree. But my suggestion is significantly more fair than any other I've heard yet, because it leaves the integrity of PSST intact, and punishes Punishment without punishing anyone else. Pun can't earn TAL points and is basically TAL banned from everything but PSST for the rest of the season. Not ideal, but I think it's the only fair solution.

But then, what do you do for the players who lose to Punishment, but could potentially beat any other player in his team? In that sense, you're causing these players to potentially lose any TAL they could otherwise have rightfully earned.

[Pikachu!]

As much as I hate to say something unfavorable to our team...


No, it'll be a solid player. He/she may not be up to Puni's skill, but they will be able to participate the entire time. Should even out.
"Afo, you can have Puni. Oh, never mind. We'll mess up your drafting plans, and take him out, giving you a lesser player. Oh yes, that will surely even it out."

That's basically what has been said. It sounds ridiculous, yes? That's because it is. You just messed up, potentially, a big part of |AFO|'s strategy. You gave him the potential of a late-game powerhouse; at the very least, good trade fodder, and then took it away. But I'm sure that your "lesser player" will "even it out" :mad:

AFO knew the risk of picking Pun. He took a gamble and it didn't pay off.
...just...no.

That's the mistake, he shouldn't have been allowed to signup at all. He misinterperted what I said and asked Bludz to sign him up with my permission.

Because there was a breakdown of communication we're going to give you another player for his spot, historically a player is not replaced in PSST.
Well, historically, nobody messed up like you did. Still, I understand the faulty communication caused it...you just need to find a compromise that doesn't hurt AFO's team.





This is the worst tournament call I have ever seen, with the sole exception of Bottle's actions during the legends PSST.

Pun signed up well before the draft. If you didn't want him to play, you had ample time to remove him before the draft took place. Now that the draft has taken place, to simply remove him is blatantly, horrifically unjust. If anyone should be removed from the tournament, it should be ninai, who has an invalid application (see his sign up post) and who wasn't placed on the signup list.

This is ridiculous, particularly considering a player of Pun's caliber cannot be replaced even by Magician. I don't know of a player not signed up that is active and equal to him in skill.

If you want to punish Pun, then punish him not his team. Kick him out of other TAL tournaments, ones that won't result in blatant unfairness. If you abide by this call, you toss the entire PSST4 results whatever they are and malign this tournament to questions of what would have happened if it had actually been handled fairly, just like the legends PSST.

I agree with this.

AFO knowingly picked someone who was TAL banned.

Not seeing this bite him in the ass is no one's fault but his.

...do you actually believe that?



Here's what I do know:
1) AFO claimed it was a high risk to even take Pun because nobody knew if he'd even last without getting banned. This situation, from the sounds of it, is simply someone getting banned.
2) Traditionally, people that are banned from tournaments aren't given replacements. HK knows there was a bit for a meltdown in communication so offered to find a replacement. Pretty generous if you ask me.
3) When I brought up Webguy to possibly add a late candidate (to give us an even number), the captains were entirely against it with the notion that Webguy was "about a 70's level pick" (ie: too good to be randomly assigned to a team as a last pick). Pun was 65th. I don't see this as that big of an issue.

As for Ninai: That WAS my fault. He did post essentially in the correct format and I simply missed it to adding to the main list. I admit my mistake, but my mistake is not great enough to deny Ninai the ability to play in this tournament. That issue is closed. And that issue IS in my jurisdiction to close it.

You don't "see it as that big of an issue"?

Punishment was picked 65th because he could not play in the start of the tournament. He would have been picked, I'd say, in the top TWENTY if he could. So don't justify it that way.



As for people not being "traditionally replaced..." That's because, traditionally, nobody has messed up someone's draft strategy.


_________________________________

The only thing that can be done, to be fair, would be Mith's solution.




But then, what do you do for the players who lose to Punishment, but could potentially beat any other player in his team? In that sense, you're causing these players to potentially lose any TAL they could otherwise have rightfully earned.

No. Punishment was a fair pick, at the time of the draft. The people who would have "rightfully earned" would only "rightfully earn" because AFO's strategy was messed up. That doesn't sound "rightful."

You couldn't be more wrong.

The purpose of a TAL ban is to show that Pun's behavior and overall stupid immaturity will not be tolerated.

People who are currently TAL banned shouldn't be able to sign-up or play in any TAL tournaments. I know this, AFO knows this, Pun knows this EVERYONE knows this.

I saw Bludz signing up Pun and thought it was a complete joke. I didn't put any more thought into it and kept reading the thread.

I thought it was even funnier when Pun was on the draft list. I didn't realize any other captain would be stupid enough to draft Pun.
And as for you, Bax...

"kept reading the thread"? If you DID, then you knew that it wasn't a joke. There was even a mini-discussion on it, somewhere in there. I sense deception.

And why should AFO be harmed on behalf of Punishment? Because it's to our advantage? :mad:

[Toledo 13]

Ah well I was unaware of the situation entirely. I was basing my logic off of what I read in this post alone. From what you two have said it seems pretty clear that he can't be allowed to play, and a replacement seems to be the only fair option. If anyone disagrees I'd imagine your best bet is to suck it up, or quit the tourney.

[Greed]

Ideally speaking, I agree. But my suggestion is significantly more fair than any other I've heard yet, because it leaves the integrity of PSST intact, and punishes Punishment without punishing anyone else. Pun can't earn TAL points and is basically TAL banned from everything but PSST for the rest of the season. Not ideal, but I think it's the only fair solution.

If your captain feels so strongly against this decision, why hasn't he said anything? Let him argue the case.

[Magician]

Mithrandir > AFO in arguments.

[BaxVarlet]

Mithrandir > AFO in arguments.

Yeah, Mith has more authority because he can sit on his mod account in Rev and lord over people, despite the fact that he isn't a mod.

AFO's a puppet head.

[Rubbish]

Mithrandir > Everyone in arguments, actually.

Bax = Tool

[Mithrandir]

And AFO's offline. I'm sure he'll continue to speak. If I shouldn't be allowed to speak, neither should you Gig.:p

[meat.eater]

I think I accidentally deleted my post while trying to delete a spambots post on a different forum. Annoying.

Anyways.

If Pun isnt earning TAL points (which includes any TAL points he would earn by being MVP, on the winning team, etc), do you really want him on your team? The point of TAL is to earn TAL points. If you remove one, you remove the other.

I don't think anybody here expects whoever is on Victorious Secret to be happy about this situation. But there certainly is nothing just, from an administration side of TAL and of TAO overall (which is kind of bigger than PSST--sorry folks), about letting someone banned go unbanned. It is more important to remain just on TAO as a whole than it is for PSST. PSST, as awesome and huge as it is, does not exempt people from proper repercussions. Sorry.

Now I've offered a compromise (that really is only going to keep Pun out of 2 additional games than was originally planned... by Pun), and I will talk to the captains about it. That is all that needs to be talked about for now.

[-Respect-]

People who are currently TAL banned shouldn't be able to sign-up or play in any TAL tournaments. I know this, AFO knows this, Pun knows this EVERYONE knows this.

I saw Bludz signing up Pun and thought it was a complete joke. I didn't put any more thought into it and kept reading the thread.

I thought it was even funnier when Pun was on the draft list. I didn't realize any other captain would be stupid enough to draft Pun.

So why didn't you speak up when he DID get drafted? Could have saved a shitload of trouble and...You could be the hero of today. Silence = Agreement (or something like that, I heard it in a speech):rolleyes:

Bax isnt a tool, hes doing it to help his team, quite obvious. His ambitions shine through like sunlight goes through glass.

~Respect

[Greed]

And AFO's offline. I'm sure he'll continue to speak. If I shouldn't be allowed to speak, neither should you Gig.:p

The difference is I'm not arguing a case for Bax, but you almost had me!

[BaxVarlet]

So why didn't you speak up when he DID get drafted? Could have saved a shitload of trouble and...You could be the hero of today. Silence = Agreement (or something like that, I heard it in a speech):rolleyes:

~Respect

I'm not in the business of helping other PSST captains.

[xEaglex]

"Compromise: Pun cannot participate in Round 1. At all. "

This "compromise" is what we were told during the draft in the first place, wasn't it? I was always under the impression that he couldn't play until the 2nd round to begin with.

[Magician]

As much as I hate to say something unfavorable to our team...



"Afo, you can have Puni. Oh, never mind. We'll mess up your drafting plans, and take him out, giving you a lesser player. Oh yes, that will surely even it out."

That's basically what has been said. It sounds ridiculous, yes? That's because it is. You just messed up, potentially, a big part of |AFO|'s strategy. You gave him the potential of a late-game powerhouse; at the very least, good trade fodder, and then took it away. But I'm sure that your "lesser player" will "even it out" :mad:


...just...no.


Well, historically, nobody messed up like you did. Still, I understand the faulty communication caused it...you just need to find a compromise that doesn't hurt AFO's team.







I agree with this.



...do you actually believe that?



You don't "see it as that big of an issue"?

Punishment was picked 65th because he could not play in the start of the tournament. He would have been picked, I'd say, in the top TWENTY if he could. So don't justify it that way.



As for people not being "traditionally replaced..." That's because, traditionally, nobody has messed up someone's draft strategy.


_________________________________

The only thing that can be done, to be fair, would be Mith's solution.






No. Punishment was a fair pick, at the time of the draft. The people who would have "rightfully earned" would only "rightfully earn" because AFO's strategy was messed up. That doesn't sound "rightful."

Pika, you're better than this.

Miscommunication allowed Punishment into the draft, as well as misinterpretation of what HK told Punishment. As Punishment is TAL banned, he shouldn't have been allowed to signup in the first place. By rights, he shouldn't be in PSST at all. However, because of an error in communications, I would be content he's still allowed to play, even though he is currently TAL banned.

[xEaglex]

"Compromise: Pun cannot participate in Round 1. At all. "

This "compromise" is what we were told during the draft in the first place, wasn't it? I was always under the impression that he couldn't play until the 2nd round to begin with.

Bump.

[BaxVarlet]

Pika, you're better than this.

Miscommunication allowed Punishment into the draft, as well as misinterpretation of what HK told Punishment. As Punishment is TAL banned, he shouldn't have been allowed to signup in the first place. By rights, he shouldn't be in PSST at all. However, because of an error in communications, I would be content he's still allowed to play, even though he is currently TAL banned.

So if a secondary account somehow slipped into the PSST, was drafted, and we found out about it. Would you also be cool with letting that person stay?

[skev21]

Now I've offered a compromise (that really is only going to keep Pun out of 2 additional games than was originally planned... by Pun), and I will talk to the captains about it.

I think the whole planned and weaselled comments are a bit low tbh. Sure Pun isn't exactly the most reliable and trustworthy guy, but it seems that he genuinely thought he could play after his ban was up. It was just more miscommunication. And how do you know it is only 2 more games :confused: ?

[meat.eater]

This compromise was set up (by Pun, I may add) to allow him to play when his 45 day ban expired. Not the end of round 1. The fault on my part was believing that what Pun said (which was that he could play in the tournament at the end of his 45 day ban) was true.

[-Respect-]

Bax isnt a tool, hes doing it to help his team, quite obvious. His ambitions shine through like sunlight goes through glass.

~Respect

Point Proven.

I'm not in the business of helping other PSST captains.

How about your duty as a mod or being part of the administration helping TAO TAL and Tournys run smoothly, making sure no problems come amiss. I'm sure you have some moral deceny. If not what type of mod are you...You sit back and watch a seemingly OBVIOUS problem and not alert another mod or take action. Nice mod team you got going FPS. Everyone looking out for themselves

~Respect

[meat.eater]

I think the whole planned and weaselled comments are a bit low tbh. Sure Pun isn't exactly the most reliable and trustworthy guy, but it seems that he genuinely thought he could play after his ban was up. It was just more miscommunication. And how do you know it is only 2 more games :confused: ?

Because games are a week long and rounds are normally 5 weeks. If he misses the first 3 weeks... we have a basic math equation.

[xEaglex]

Can someone reply to me? Please?

[Greed]

Point Proven.



How about your duty as a mod or being part of the administration helping TAO TAL and Tournys run smoothly, making sure no problems come amiss. I'm sure you have some moral deceny.

~Respect

Are you honestly trying to make the main point of your argument morality? Oh God.

[skev21]

I understand all that, I'm simply saying that I don't think Pun knew he couldn't play, he just misunderstood what HK and himself discussed and thought it was set in stone that he could play after his 45 day ban was up.

[Mithrandir]

Yeah, Mith has more authority because he can sit on his mod account in Rev and lord over people, despite the fact that he isn't a mod.

AFO's a puppet head.

This is a post with such immaturity that I wanted to make sure it would be noticed. Everyone, please notice it.

[meat.eater]

How about your duty as a mod or being part of the administration helping TAO TAL and Tournys run smoothly, making sure no problems come amiss. I'm sure you have some moral deceny. If not what type of mod are you...You sit back and watch a seemingly OBVIOUS problem and not alert another mod or take action. Nice mod team you got going FPS.

~Respect

That's a terrible argument, no offense. If he's speaking as his duty as a mod, he'd most certainly be advocating for the banning of someone who deserves to be banned...

That's kind of our job. It comes before TAL.

[Pikachu!]

Pika, you're better than this.

Miscommunication allowed Punishment into the draft, as well as misinterpretation of what HK told Punishment. As Punishment is TAL banned, he shouldn't have been allowed to signup in the first place. By rights, he shouldn't be in PSST at all. However, because of an error in communications, I would be content he's still allowed to play, even though he is currently TAL banned.

I understand that.

I am saying that Mith's solution is still the only fair one.

If you're saying that the "compromise" of no round-1 will work, then it makes sense that Mav's solution would work just as well, while being fairer.

They are no different, save that yours only punishes Punishment further...when it was not his fault there was a case of bad communication.

This is a post with such immaturity that I wanted to make sure it would be noticed. Everyone, please notice it.
:rolleyes: Yes, your post is.

[meat.eater]

Can someone reply to me? Please?

I did. Post 457.

[Nightmarez]

I hope the compromize works...

[-Respect-]

So if a secondary account somehow slipped into the PSST, was drafted, and we found out about it. Would you also be cool with letting that person stay?

Knowing you, you'd do nothing about it even if you knew it would cause problems later because you don't "help other captains" you're only out for yourself. Hah so much for a mod "team" (Just like pun's incident)

~Respect

[Match Strike]

Wah wah wah
...

Except eagle. He's right.

[Pikachu!]

...

Except eagle. He's right.

Did you read the thread? :rolleyes:

[BaxVarlet]

This is a post with such immaturity that I wanted to make sure it would be noticed. Everyone, please notice it.

Are you claiming you're not acting self-righteous? It's all you've been doing since you've been back for the PSST. Yes, it's your pet project. Do you have any more rights over it this year, than any other normal player? No. You sit on your mod account in Rev because it sets you on a pedestal above the other players. There's no reason you should be on it, you're NOT a mod anymore.

You're holier than thou mindset has been ever present since your epic return. Too bad your motives for arguing that Pun be allowed to play is purely selfish. I have a hunch you wouldn't be so actively arguing for his allowance in the PSST if you weren't on his team.

The PSST deserves NO special concessions. Pun is TAL banned, for someone who had always been a strict enforcer of the TAL rules, it's borderline hilarious to see you arguing so staunchly that he should be allowed to participate in this PSST.

Your compromise is equally laughable. Double his ban length, but allow him to participate in the PSST? Do you realize the purpose of bans? They're both punishments and educational. What do you think this is teaching people, or teaching Pun? Somehow sneak into an important tournament, and you'll be allowed to play despite your past transgressions. Excellent message you're sending to the masses, Mith.

The PSST hasn't even started yet. Losing a 60-some draft pick isn't going to drastically shift the outcome.

The only reason why people are arguing he should play is because he is good. Should skill really dictate the terms of a ban? Are we really suggesting this?

What if Veil had sneaked into the PSST and was drafted. No one would care if he was kicked out, not even the captain of the team who drafted him. Pun deserves no special treatment, and he should NOT be allowed to participate.

[Match Strike]

Did you read the thread? :rolleyes:

Did you?

[Pikachu!]

[insert post]

[venomous sarcasm]And it's just a bonus that it helps our team. [/venomous sarcasm]

[Mithrandir]

Are you claiming you're not acting self-righteous?
Certainly. I think I'm right, that's different than self-righteous.
It's all you've been doing since you've been back for the PSST. Yes, it's your pet project. Do you have any more rights over it this year, than any other normal player? No.
Of course I don't have any more rights over it than any other player, but all players deserve justice, and I think banning Pun NOW is unjust.
You sit on your mod account in Rev because it sets you on a pedestal above the other players. There's no reason you should be on it, you're NOT a mod anymore.
I sit on my mod account because I don't HAVE another rev account that is solely mine. I used to use randomchaos, but now someone else is using it again. If you want to pay $5 for me to get a reguarly gold account, I'll take it.
Too bad your motives for arguing that Pun be allowed to play is purely selfish. I have a hunch you wouldn't be so actively arguing for his allowance in the PSST if you weren't on his team.
I want what is fair. I'm not the only one arguing that banning Pun is unfair.

The PSST hasn't even started yet. Losing a 60-some draft pick isn't going to drastically shift the outcome.
Pun is "a 60-some draft pick" that won't shift the outcome? Is that your argument?

[BaxVarlet]

Pun is "a 60-some draft pick" that won't shift the outcome? Is that your argument?

Is yours that because Pun is skilled he should be able to circumvent a ban?

[Magician]

Mith, ignore Bax.

Bax, no need to get personal.

[Lord Shinok]

Ah, the drama! Gotta love TAO!

Pun is going to have a good laugh out of this.

EDIT: Bax, it's funny how you want what's fair. How is drafting Ninai who was not yet placed on the draft list while no one else knew about it is fair?

[Nitanius Nolund]

EDIT:

Nevermind. Missed a post

[Greed]

Ah, the drama! Gotta love TAO!

Pun is going to have a good laugh out of this.

EDIT: Bax, it's funny how you want what's fair. How is drafting Ninai who was not yet placed on the draft list while no one else knew about it is fair?

Why didn't your captain read the sign-up thread?

[Lord Shinok]

Why didn't your captain read the sign-up thread?

Lol. Honestly, no one really have the time to read all 45 pages worth of sign-ups.

[Greed]

Lol. Honestly, no one really have the time to read all 45 pages worth of sign-ups.

Sadly, Bax does.

[Master TAO]

I think Bax has some validity in his thinking. I was arguing with Meat and Mith the other night and he asked meat if he could 'kick' me for being annoying. That shows a slight better than thou in itself and i found it a little disturbing.

[Redux]

Too bad your motives for arguing that Pun be allowed to play is purely selfish. I have a hunch you wouldn't be so actively arguing for his allowance in the PSST if you weren't on his team.

I want what is fair. I'm not the only one arguing that banning Pun is unfair.


Actually there are a number of other people (on and off his team) arguing for him to stay. A number of comments you have said (Bax) have been completely out of hand, especially for a mod's standards. I am more awe struck by the fact that you basically admitted you knew and didn't do anything about it. There is no way you thought it was a joke if you continued to read on.

This shouldn't be this complicated. Nothing done from this point on is going to be "fair" by everyone's standards. A compromise has to be made and I believe it should be the one that was made from the beginning. He cant play untill his ban is up. That is what we were all led to believe from the start, and that is why he was "a steal" and 60+ pick.

[Maverik07]

To Mith: Honestly, i dont think your "compromise" is a compromise at all. The original understanding was that Pun wouldnt be able to play until his ban was up, so at the very least, he still shouldnt get to play until then.

I dont think that Pun should've been able to sign up in the first place, since he was forum banned at the time, but for whatever reason he was allowed to sign up and be drafted. At this point, i think we have to let Pun play, but at the very least not until Feb 18th.

[skev21]

I assumed Mith meant by round 1, at the end of the semis, i.e. not against your team at all. However I could be easilly wrong and may have misinterpreted.

[-Respect-]

To Mith: Honestly, i dont think your "compromise" is a compromise at all. The original understanding was that Pun wouldnt be able to play until his ban was up, so at the very least, he still shouldnt get to play until then.

I dont think that Pun should've been able to sign up in the first place, since he was forum banned at the time, but for whatever reason he was allowed to sign up and be drafted. At this point, i think we have to let Pun play, but at the very least not until Feb 18th.

you misunderstand, PUN is only going to play as he was supposed to from the first place....He will only play after his ban is up. The compromise seems to have everyone satisfied except Baxvarlet. Poor guy he sure is getting alot of lashing I do agree though that he admitted he knew what was happening the whole tiem and did nothing..kinda wrong

~Respect

[Mithrandir]

I think Bax has some validity in his thinking. I was arguing with Meat and Mith the other night and he asked meat if he could 'kick' me for being annoying. That shows a slight better than thou in itself and i found it a little disturbing.

Oh come now, I was joshing around and everyone else present knew it.:rolleyes:

Ignoring you now too.

[LosPollos]

What would happen if a pro sports team drafted a player who was, after the draft, determined not to have been eligible for the draft in the first place?

This is actually a kinda serious question, because i don't follow sports and have no idea what they actually would do. :p

[Hatchet Klown]

After speaking to a portion of Pun's team that is important and biased for him, and looking at the outcomes of just about every decision possible, here's the final decision:

Punishment will be permitted to start participating in the third round of PSST4. He will NOT be able to receive TAL points or the MVP/6th Man title from the tournament.

He will additionally be TAL banned until May 20th for his actions in this matter.

This is the fairest possible outcome for his team, and to keep the rules in check so that no one is above them. Agree with it or not, it's final. There will be no more public conversation on this topic, any posts following this will be deleted promptly.

[Master TAO]

Oh come now, I was joshing around and everyone else present knew it.:rolleyes:

Ignoring you now too.

well maybe you were and if i mispoke im sorry. It just didnt seem like you were at the moment

ignoring me now? thats a bit immature no? i dont have a problem with you mith.

[Magician]

Guys, subject closed. If you have anything to say at all, take it to PMs.

[BaxVarlet]

I'm truly sorry Mav.

Had I thought my arguing against Pun's readmittance into the PSST would have actually granted him the ability to play in round 1 against you, I would have kept my mouth shut.

Instead of making it "fair" for AFO's team now, he got a skilled player at an absolutely ludicrous pick, and Mav's team is hurt because of it.

[Pikachu!]

My post is the only one that gets deleted, and it is, coincidentally, the only one that criticizes bax. Of course.



O.k., since I can't mention the unmentionable, I'll reword it.

Bax, you need to post intelligently. You are making me embarrassed to be on your team.

And, again, whoever deleted my post...

Everyone else continues talking, unless they criticize a mod? Of course, of course...

[Rubbish]

Lets cut the drama (like that's possible :p) and get this baby started.

Victorious Secret FTW :D.

[Magician]

My post is the only one that gets deleted, and it is, coincidentally, the only one that criticizes bax. Of course.



O.k., since I can't mention the unmentionable, I'll reword it.

Bax, you need to post intelligently. You are making me embarrassed to be on your team.

And, again, whoever deleted my post...

Everyone else continues talking, unless they criticize a mod? Of course, of course...

Forums lagged for me as I went to delete everyone else's posts. Stop playing crybaby, and making false accusations.

[Hatchet Klown]

Also, should Punishment be Forum banned at any point during PSST4, that ban will be treated as though it's an initial TAL ban, and he will be automatically disqualified from the tournament.

Sorry for late addition, but it was a point brought up after the fact I didn't think needed to be explained in depth.

[Hatchet Klown]

After speaking to a portion of Pun's team that is important and biased for him, and looking at the outcomes of just about every decision possible, here's the final decision:

Punishment will be permitted to start participating in the third round of PSST4. He will NOT be able to receive TAL points or the MVP/6th Man title from the tournament.

He will additionally be TAL banned until May 20th for his actions in this matter.

This is the fairest possible outcome for his team, and to keep the rules in check so that no one is above them. Agree with it or not, it's final. There will be no more public conversation on this topic, any posts following this will be deleted promptly.

His own team has asked for this stipulation in your favor. Thank them.

[StupidCows]

Sorry... question.

What do you mean by the third round? Some people have used "round" in indicate the matchups between teams (such as: semifinals = round 1, finals = round 2). This is obviously not what you mean, because there would be no round 3.

[skev21]

Third game of the round. I.e. our team benches Pun until all second matchups have been played.

[Nitanius Nolund]

He means the third round of the first matchups.

So, AFO vs Mav

Round 1 (everyone plays)
Round 2 (next matches)
Round 3 (when Pun can play)