TAO Rankings: Clan Invite Feature

[BrutalRage]

Hey guys, I'm gonna be hijacking this forum for TAO Rankings suggestions that need careful thought and consideration. I was actually discussing this idea with serg. Both he and I decided that this needed to be openly discussed to see what you guys think.

The good news...

Wouldn't it be great if after your gray account was invited into a clan, that you can keep it in a clan without having to find a clan leader to re-invite you after you get wiped? I thought of a way to make that possible with the bot. It might encourage gray players to stay in the clan or even playing the game.

The bad news...

The only way for the bot to login to the clan leader account and re-invite the gray, it has to know your clan leader password.

My concerns...

Is this safe enough? I mean, I trust me. I would sooner cut off my arm than share your clan leader account passwords with people or otherwise abuse this information. But what if a hacker broke into my server? I'm a smart guy who knows a thing or two about hackers and server security. I've removed unwanted software. I've shut down unused services. I maintain a firewall, and have current versions of software. But am I hacker proof? No. Is it likely that anybody who plays TAO will have the hacker smarts to break into my server and steal this information? Probably not. But the possibility exists. It would be a terrible thing if somebody were to get hold of your clan leader account. They could dump the units. They could move leadership to another account. They could kick everybody out of the clan.

No favoritism!

I want this feature for my clan - Strategic Insomniacs. I would like the grays to be able to re-invite themselves. I'm confident enough in the security of my server to take this risk, though I would have to discuss this with the other clan leaders, first. But I don't believe it would be fair to give Strategic Insomniacs this advantage over other clans if nobody is willing to opt-in to this feature. So I need to know if this is worth it. I want to know if several clans are willing to entrust me with their clan leader passwords in order to take advantage of this feature.

How would it work?

A clan leader would login to my website and say what accounts are allowed into SI. They would also set the "clan invite password" for each account and give them to the clan members. Anytime that clan member wants an invite to the clan, they have to login to the game with that account and go to the tao rankings website and enter their clan invite password. Within a few minutes, the bot will login as the clan leader and send him an invite. After he is invited, the bot will log back off again.

Alright folks, make your votes!

[Loopget]

Does your godlike skill never cease? i love that idea, but the possibility of the hackers getting basically all the clan leader passwords might turn some people off, im voting yes though :),

Great Job Brutal

[Hoolwath]

I have absolutely no opinion.

I just wanted to say I am a huge fan of your line "I mean, I trust me."

[shurtugal]

No. It's a good idea, but this is TAO. We're full of E-nerds, the server will get hacked eventually.
Even then, you said the leader had to log on and say what account was allowed in. Maybe people wouldn't put in any effort to do that.
I'm not contradicting it, I like the idea, but personally, too dangerous, I don't plan on sending my accounts pw to it.

[BrutalRage]

I have absolutely no opinion.

I just wanted to say I am a huge fan of your line "I mean, I trust me."

heh heh. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure people gave full consideration that even if they trust me, they should weight the possibility of the password getting out. But by all means, if I come across as a shifty sneaky fella willing to destroy everything I've worked for in doing nonsense things, voice it as your reasoning for voting no. I want the full picture of your opinions.

[elimination]

The only bad part I see in this is that some members we don't want in our clans, like for instance, chainboob sayin he has a secret account in netjak, and sure we can expel every single account out of netjak and reinvite ones we know that aren't him for sure.
However, what if it happens and he ends up getting the clan invite pw? He would be able to invite himself into netjak.
This is a small personal matter I guess, and would depend on us.
I like this sysetm and such, but I just believe that inviting is made for ONLY LEADERS ONLY, just like it was made.
I got to go now, later, brutal reply to me on my visitors thingy..
No need to carry this out anymore in your thread, sorry.

[BrutalRage]

The only bad part I see in this is that some members we don't want in our clans, like for instance, chainboob sayin he has a secret account in netjak, and sure we can expel every single account out of netjak and reinvite ones we know that aren't him for sure.
However, what if it happens and he ends up getting the clan invite pw? He would be able to invite himself into netjak.
This is a small personal matter I guess, and would depend on us.
I like this sysetm and such, but I just believe that inviting is made for ONLY LEADERS ONLY, just like it was made.
I got to go now, later, brutal reply to me on my visitors thingy..
No need to carry this out anymore in your thread, sorry.

There is not just one clan invite password. Each password is locked to a single account. And you can remove him from the list of self clan invite. As far as how the feature works, it is pretty solid and can be made more convenient so that leaders do not have to get involved to add people to the list all the time. I'm mainly just asking about the fact that clan leaders would have to hand over their leader account passwords. You can always change the password if you no longer wish to participate in the feature or trust me to delete it from my system.

[Wizzy`]

But by all means, if I come across as a shifty sneaky fella willing to destroy everything I've worked for in doing nonsense things,

I'd do it.

[Maverik07]

I feel like theres too much room to abuse something like this...

I dont feel this is necessary.

[Snowolf]

No, because once a grey gets wiped out of so say Netjak, I could copy the name and get reinvited.

[BrutalRage]

No, because once a grey gets wiped out of so say Netjak, I could copy the name and get reinvited.

No, cause you wouldn't have the clan invite password. That's why the password is even there - so that people can't pretend to be you and invite themselves into the clan.

[-=Gun=-]

maybe if a bot could stay updated on the wiping greys in clans and the current clan rosters to keep unwanted players out of certain clans.

[shurtugal]

No, because once a grey gets wiped out of so say Netjak, I could copy the name and get reinvited.

So could anyone else. Tons of players have had their names stolen.

[Wizzy`]

No, cause you wouldn't have the clan invite password. That's why the password is even there - so that people can't pretend to be you and invite themselves into the clan.

Yeah, because no one gives out passwords....

[DOCTOR DEVICE]

who cares about random greys?

[DOCTOR DEVICE]

btw:

I would sooner cut off my arm than share your clan leader account passwords with people or otherwise abuse this information.

HARD LOL.

[BrutalRage]

Yeah, because no one gives out passwords....

Right, but even if somebody gave out the password, it would still be locked to that account name. There has been people in the past who fooled my clan mates into inviting them simply cause they called themselves BrutalRage. Course, I've had a talk with the other leaders and made sure it doesn't happen again, but I'm sure you'll admit that this system might even be more trustworthy than normal re-invites.

But I'm not here to argue for the system. I just want to make sure everybody understands how the feature will work and the relative risks and let you decide.

[elimination]

It seems to look like it will work fine, but just for the record, when people try to lie and sneak into nj army by re-making a old nj member account and sayin they are them, I simply won't let them in unless they have hard evidence that they are who they say they are.
This doesn't help us leaders much, except helping the members get their account back into netjak without having the trouble of looking for that server leader.
But I guess this could be good, just hope you are positive that you know what your doing.

P.S By using this system, we would have to trust you by giving you acess to our lead accounts? Not saying that your not trustworthy or anything. That just makes me uncomfortable when someone who isn't a nj member or atleast not NON having acess to our lead accounts.

[Jeffery]

That is the only issue I would have at hand......

Having to hand out passwords. Also, what happens when the leadership is passed for whatever reason, or the password changed......

It would be one thing to have a staff member or non-aligned person doing this.... But an active clan member?
Even the best intentions in the world can be twisted.

HOWEVER, this would be something you COULD use. Not something you HAVE to use. So I see no real harm overall. But I would say User Beware.

[Merdoc.]

Clans are over rated imho ;)

[Bloody-Killer]

Love the idea but i think there is abit of a flaw, but easy to fix.

When the grey account gets the invite it will soon be deleted after 30 days. For e.g if i make an account called 123, then one of the si leaders say 123 is allowed to join then when this 123 account expires anyone can easily make another account called 123 before the original person and get an auto invite.

Sorry if im wrong, i must have missed something.

P.s. Brut your a genius!

[elimination]

That was what I was gonna point out, but that's why there is a invite pw for the account, in which that fixes that problem.

[lemon_]

Im loving the idea. Time to time I hop onto the server and make a grey to play some games and have a good time with my clanmates. The problem is that sometimes it takes a while to catch a leader to get an invite and I get bored before that happens.

So um, yes please.

[Jeffery]

Love the idea but i think there is abit of a flaw, but easy to fix.

When the grey account gets the invite it will soon be deleted after 30 days. For e.g if i make an account called 123, then one of the si leaders say 123 is allowed to join then when this 123 account expires anyone can easily make another account called 123 before the original person and get an auto invite.

Sorry if im wrong, i must have missed something.

P.s. Brut your a genius!
You missed the leaderset password yu have to have to get the invite back in. ;)

[elimination]

You missed the leaderset password yu have to have to get the invite back in. ;)

And you missed my post where I told him that :p

[Jeffery]

And you missed my post where I told him that :p
Who are you?

[elimination]

Your mom......

[Snowolf]

Your mom......

Your slave.

[elimination]

I'm whose slave?!?! :O

[Loopget]

SI's obviously

[Bloody-Killer]

And you missed my post where I told him that :p

Who are you?

Your mom......

Your slave.

I'm whose slave?!?! :O
So things haven't changed :p

SI's obviously
We can get better slaves than eli :bigsmile:

[elimination]

You bloody booblet! No one can get a better slave than me!
/cyber like crazy
:rolleyes:

[Skorn]

Ok, I've tried to comprehend and understand the idea with the password a few times, but I feel i'm not understanding the whole idea.

How will this password system work? From my understanding it is a specific password per clan that will tell the bot to log onto a leader account and invite a certian account. So basically, if you have the password, any account can be invited? I think i'm probably wrong, and if so, can someone with a better understanding explain how it is correctly?

[Jeffery]

Skorn:

Clan leadersigns upfor the service. Gives the information, including leadaccount name and password.
They then set a list of greys to be auto-invited back in, as well as an authorization code (ie password) for the grey.
After being wiped,the grey member recreates his account, and contacts the Bot with the authorization code. The bot then logs in on the clan leaders account, invites the grey,and goes back to bot mode.



I do have one question: How does the grey give the code to the bot without the entire lobby seeing it?

[shurtugal]

SI website, I believe.

[BrutalRage]

Every person in the clan auto-invite list gets their own clan invite password. The gray player goes on the tao rankings website to enter their invite password so that the invite bot will log in.

[Jeffery]

Every person in the clan auto-invite list gets their own clan invite password. The gray player goes on the tao rankings website to enter their invite password so that the invite bot will log in.
Thanks for the clarification.

I voted Yes, BTW. Although, whether or not I will support the Netjak clan using it will be something to discuss in our leadership.

There is no reason NOT to implement this.If someone wishes to not use it, they don;t have to.

[salube]

The system is good and beneficial. Basically if a user wants the auto invite he tells the leader, the leader adds him and gives a unique authorization code. The only way a person other then him, the leader, or brutal to invite him would be if that person gave away their unique code and simultaneously let someone else create that username. And if he wanted someone else to do that he could have giving his account away at near the same effort.

The only real questions here are,

1. Is it Protected From Hackers?

The answer appears to be yes, it is well protected but a determined "hacker" who could hack tao could also hack the system. I trust that Brutals firewalls and preventative measures are sufficient as he has mentioned. We shouldn't have high class hackers trying to kick people out of clans here.

2. Is it worth the effort to give users their codes?

In the long run yes. In the short run no. Given that the person wants to go with the same name every month then yes this saves time because he doesn't have to identify himself every time and wait for an invite and post on forums etc... etc...
However this feature will only benefit greys who are active enough to request an auto-renewel. Forum shy individuals will probably not see this help them.

My vote is yes for those reasons.

There is an additional feature that I believe would be useful, and that is just giving leaders the ability to add a que of people to be invited through taorankings.

Say I am a leader and I have received a pm from a friend who made a new gold and wants an invite. Well he isn't on now so I could just type his name and my auth code for my clan as a leader and then his name would go in que to be invited. Then when he logs in so does bot to send him an invite.

My 2 cents.

[blah__]

Hes trying to make this as good as possible and he admits he could possibly be hacked therefore, you put in the passes at your own risk. He has all the newest software but if somehow a hacker gets the pass, BrutalRage is in no way resposible.

Simple.

Maybe you could tell the bot to delete the passes off the server at random times?

[BrutalRage]

I have received a pm from a friend who made a new gold and wants an invite. Well he isn't on now so I could just type his name and my auth code for my clan as a leader and then his name would go in que to be invited. Then when he logs in so does bot to send him an invite.

Agreed. This system is not just for re-invite of grays. It is expected to be used for new invites as well. And the queue idea sounds like a great convenience mechanism for that very purpose.

[Wizzy`]

Everyone gets their own password? What happens if you lose the password?

[BrutalRage]

Everyone gets their own password? What happens if you lose the password?

They'll have to get invited the old fashioned way unless the leader resets the password and gives the user the new password. Retrieval of passwords won't be possible since they'll be stored using one-way encryption.

[Bloody-Killer]

Lets have a trial then brut :bigsmile:

[Skorn]

Skorn:

Clan leadersigns upfor the service. Gives the information, including leadaccount name and password.
They then set a list of greys to be auto-invited back in, as well as an authorization code (ie password) for the grey.
After being wiped,the grey member recreates his account, and contacts the Bot with the authorization code. The bot then logs in on the clan leaders account, invites the grey,and goes back to bot mode.



I do have one question: How does the grey give the code to the bot without the entire lobby seeing it?


Thanks for the clarification Jefferey. Since each grey account will have its own unique password, then I like this idea a lot. This new system is more like a benefit, not a need, but in the end it will be useful never-the-less.

Any clan leaders who did not want to participate and potentially lose their clan through hackers do not have to sign up for the system.

I vote yes, and I think this new feature will have great popularity. Nice job Brutal!

[†=THE ONE=†]

This is a great concept that I think will be very beneficial to clans and grey players in the long run. The pros outweigh the cons in my opinion, so yes vote from me. Lets try and give it a shot hopefully, eh? ;)

[Pikachu!]

Good concept. As for the application of it...we'll see.

[~X~X~X~]

This, I think, is a great idea, but risky.

[-=TAO Player=-]

i like it.

[The Masked Imp]

I oppose to this idea due to the following reason. If someone were to become reinvited and has the code, they may give out the code to other people if they also want to join. This will result in many random people joining into a single clan.

[Jeffery]

I oppose to this idea due to the following reason. If someone were to become reinvited and has the code, they may give out the code to other people if they also want to join. This will result in many random people joining into a single clan.
Codes are based on individual accounts.

The clan leader must put the name of the account on the list, as well as set a verification code for each account.

Example: I am leader of Clan Bananas. You are a grey. I have to register with the taorankings.comwebsite,and set your account to be invited, verification code "IMPSINVITE".

You then have togoto the taorankings.com site, input your account name and "IMPSINVITE" code, then the bot willlog in and invite you.

The invite will only work for your account and only with that code.

[The Masked Imp]

yea, that makes sense but one more thing.

I think that a leader should be active anyways. Many leaders in top clans are active enough and it is not terribly tough for someone to find an invite once per month. I still do not feel good about this concept just for a beneficiary way of reinviting a grey once per month. If the leader is too inactive, then it is the clans fault. This also may be complicated for players who are not as active as others but only come on to chill.

[Jeffery]

yea, that makes sense but one more thing.

I think that a leader should be active anyways. Many leaders in top clans are active enough and it is not terribly tough for someone to find an invite once per month. I still do not feel good about this concept just for a beneficiary way of reinviting a grey once per month. If the leader is too inactive, then it is the clans fault. This also may be complicated for players who are not as active as others but only come on to chill.
Then don;t use it.

A leader has to actively sign up for this. If one doesn;t like it, no one is making them use it.

[Pikachu!]

A single glitch/delay could cause the bot to say the password in the lobby.

[Jeffery]

A single glitch/delay could cause the bot to say the password in the lobby.
No, it couldn;t.

Passwords are used, selected and given on the taorankings.com website only. None of the actions take place in the server besides the actual invite.
Not to mention BR has been pretty clear his Bot is not for chatting, so won;t be programmed to discuss passwords.

[knix]

this'll work good...

[BrutalRage]

Jeffery is correct about Pikachu's concern. This is NOT a macro! It's not like I have a program sending keystrokes to the game window to login and send invite commands (heck, it's even running on linux with no graphics. So no windows in sight). This bot replaces the flash game client with its own terribly complicated coding. It has to specifically send the login command to log in, and after that it sends the invite command. There is zero risk of the clan leader password being sent to the lobby.

There is only two things to worry about. Some people might be concerned that a very knowledgeable TAO playing hacker will break into my server and find password(s) for clan leader accounts. Other people might be concerned about giving leader access to somebody who is a leader of another clan (me). I respect both concerns. So far, I see no other reason for you to reject this feature. It is like programming your leader account to do various things automatically. It can re-invite grays on-demand, or it can be configured to auto-invite accounts newly added to the clan. Maybe it can do more at some point. Is it necessary? No. It is useful? Yes. Such is the case with most things.

I've been watching the poll vote progress. We're maintaining a fairly steady 80% approval rating. But that isn't enough. To avoid favoritism, I want to be sure that real live clans are willing to send me details to sign up for this feature. So I think I've figured out the next step. I'm going to go ahead and create this feature. Once it is done, I'm going to find out what clans are willing to hand over the keys to their leader account in order to use this feature. If I get at least 5 clans willing to participate (including SI, once I get the other leader's approval), then I'll make it an official release.

[Junier]

Great idea brutal, plus this will make the gamers use his main account instead of creating alot of secondarys before every wipe.

Yes vote.

[OpixMK]

Yes vote. (Wow, its been a long time since I've posted).
This makes the game funner for grays like me. :)

[Catra]

BrutalRage, once again, you never cease to amaze me. This seems to be a brilliant solution for one of the annoying issues of clans. See a problem, fix it.

The only issue I see is that clan leaders are going to see this as more work instead of less for them seeing as they have to go into the site and create passwords, then let each of their greys know. In the long run, it will be much less work, but the initial set up creates havoc. I would suggest a possible solution would be to give the greys you know one password, and then a second "trial" password to the new players. Then you could switch out the trial password, let the ones you want to keep know the real one, and weed out the others.

As for Masked Imp's concern, what about players in other time zones than the leader? As it works now, players have to shift the leader position to other clan members when they aren't going to be online, correct? That is a hassle for the smaller clans, I've noticed. It has been in the larger clans occasionally as well. I am not always on at the same time as any of our leaders, I'd love knowing I was auto invited back into my clan servers other than my home, I'd be online more often then. (And I often just come online to "chill".) My vote is yes.

(By the way, I'm adding the disclaimer that if this does not make any sense, I claim exhaustion!:D)

[BrutalRage]

BrutalRage, once again, you never cease to amaze me. This seems to be a brilliant solution for one of the annoying issues of clans. See a problem, fix it.

The only issue I see is that clan leaders are going to see this as more work instead of less for them seeing as they have to go into the site and create passwords, then let each of their greys know. In the long run, it will be much less work, but the initial set up creates havoc. I would suggest a possible solution would be to give the greys you know one password, and then a second "trial" password to the new players. Then you could switch out the trial password, let the ones you want to keep know the real one, and weed out the others.

As for Masked Imp's concern, what about players in other time zones than the leader? As it works now, players have to shift the leader position to other clan members when they aren't going to be online, correct? That is a hassle for the smaller clans, I've noticed. It has been in the larger clans occasionally as well. I am not always on at the same time as any of our leaders, I'd love knowing I was auto invited back into my clan servers other than my home, I'd be online more often then. (And I often just come online to "chill".) My vote is yes.

(By the way, I'm adding the disclaimer that if this does not make any sense, I claim exhaustion!:D)

Nope, didn't understand your possibly solution, but I'm interested. The best I can figure is that you want to be able to set a default password for all clan members. This default password can be overridden if a clan leader actually wants to go through the hard work of setting a password for a specific account. This default password dealio would be an optional feature, though, since it can cause trouble.

[†SIKE†]

I think this is a great idea. This would work great for my clan and i would definately use it. Brutal you just keep coming up with great ideas!!!
xD

[†SIKE†]

I LOVE THIS IDEA!! I think it would be great and i would use it for my clan all the time. The part bout the pass word thing doesnt really bother me. Lets hope we get!:D

[Loopget]

Wow, first two posts right after one another, Beautiful.

[T Solo]

Wow, pointing out the obvious, fantastical!

[Shiznit]

Scenario:

I got kicked out of SI, and I want revenge. I give the clan invite password to everyone.

What then?

[Shiznit]

Codes are based on individual accounts.

The clan leader must put the name of the account on the list, as well as set a verification code for each account.

Example: I am leader of Clan Bananas. You are a grey. I have to register with the taorankings.comwebsite,and set your account to be invited, verification code "IMPSINVITE".

You then have togoto the taorankings.com site, input your account name and "IMPSINVITE" code, then the bot willlog in and invite you.

The invite will only work for your account and only with that code.

Nevermind. :cool:

[Japtch]

WTH Shiznit. Double posting is against the rules.

[Baseballboy]

No, even though you're a smart guy and all, no. I am total agains't giving out the password first of all, and I really think clan invites should be kept like always. So really, if you're a a gray that needs an invite back because you were wiped, just come on these forums or the clan forums and PM the leader(s). Difficult?

[Japtch]

Quicker, easier.. I don't think he ever claimed that it was difficult, he just was trying to make things easier.

If you trust BrutalRage, as Strategic Insomniacs does, then you'll do it. If you don't, so be it.

[speaker4thedead]

I think he was geting at what if BrutalRage gets hacked e.t.c.

[Japtch]

I'm a smart guy who knows a thing or two about hackers and server security. I've removed unwanted software. I've shut down unused services. I maintain a firewall, and have current versions of software.

Good enough for me.. ;)

[lemon_]

To be honest, I don't care at all what these, ahem, sceptics think. I just know that as a player, I don't want to deal with all the reinviting hassle. If people from other clans don't want to use this feature - fine. Do it for SI, screw the rest :cool:.

[Nightmarez]

No, even though you're a smart guy and all, no. I am total agains't giving out the password first of all, and I really think clan invites should be kept like always. So really, if you're a a gray that needs an invite back because you were wiped, just come on these forums or the clan forums and PM the leader(s). Difficult?

Your not giving out passwords...

I can't say it the way Jeff does... so Jeff will say it:

"
Codes are based on individual accounts.

The clan leader must put the name of the account on the list, as well as set a verification code for each account.

Example: I am leader of Clan Bananas. You are a grey. I have to register with the taorankings.comwebsite,and set your account to be invited, verification code "IMPSINVITE".

You then have togoto the taorankings.com site, input your account name and "IMPSINVITE" code, then the bot willlog in and invite you.

The invite will only work for your account and only with that code.
-Jeffery
"

[Japtch]

Wrong.

You have to give BrutalRage the password to the leader account in order to access it. There's no other way.