A Discussion about Time.

[I MaFiA I]

What is it? As in, philosophically, scientifcally, etc. I'd like to get the definitions of all sides of it. Also, what is the correlation between time and space? I've read some pretty damn interesting threads about time but I was really confused because I only know the practical meaning of it.

This thread may be boring to some, but please don't douche it up with retarded pics and whatnot. I'm clearly not going for "epic thread" award or anything seeing as how most would find this topic boring, I simply would like to learn more about.....time. I'm about to read the wiki on "Time" as soon as I hit submit new thread so don't think I'm just using you guys for knowledge.

No trolls.

No idiots, except for bdog (<3 lol).

No Kyir. I know you're a pretty smart guy but instead of trying to contribute to the debate you'd rather "provide the lulz". Please, no lulz in this thread, just be chill. If you MUST post, at least be on topic.

No HK/HW. You kids live to insult and mock me for anything I do, without reason. Sure, you can say I did it too, but if 2 wrongs dont make a right, why the hell would 3?

R G, Northwind, Medemia, Jeffrey, uniq, and Realist are all more than welcome to this thread and I hope you post because you people are some of the only people left on this site I'd expect intelligent answers from.

[_Thunder_]

Time is money. Discussion over.

[I MaFiA I]

Time is money. Discussion over.

For a troll post, that made me lol in real life. Kudos to you for that, but I'd appreciate it if you give a serious answer also.

[_Thunder_]

Time is a measurement. I don't really know what other answers you are looking for. It's just like mm or cm or ft.

[Punishment]

http://www.fmft.net/Women%20are%20trouble%20algebra%20time%20is%20mone y.JPG

So basically Women = Time^2

so time = sqrt Women.

[Lex]

A discussion about time, eh? It's not really my favorite song, but I like it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyL2vAUVOM0

[Unforgottner]

No trolls.

No idiots, except for bdog (<3 lol).

No Kyir. I know you're a pretty smart guy but instead of trying to contribute to the debate you'd rather "provide the lulz". Please, no lulz in this thread, just be chill. If you MUST post, at least be on topic.

No HK/HW. You kids live to insult and mock me for anything I do, without reason. Sure, you can say I did it too, but if 2 wrongs dont make a right, why the hell would 3?

.

cause this will stop them.

[Hatchet Klown]

Time is money. Discussion over.

That's all anyone in the world needs to know.

Oh and you're a bad driver. Just had to say it. ;)

[ScytheMan]

Time is there to measure how fast things go. I don't really know what other answers you are looking for. It's just like mm or cm or ft.

I'm sorry, but I had to comment on how blatantly wrong this is. Time does not measure how fast things go. That would be speed. Speed is distance over time.

You are right though in that it is a unit of measurement like grams, gallons or miles.

I think you could more accurately describe time as a way to measure a distance between instances/moments.

[_Thunder_]

I'm sorry, but I had to comment on how blatantly wrong this is. Time does not measure how fast things go. That would be speed. Speed is distance over time.

You are right though in that it is a unit of measurement like grams, gallons or miles.

I think you could more accurately describe time as a way to measure a distance between instances/moments.

Time is a measurement. Is what I as getting at..

[bdog1321]

Well to start Mafia, do you subscribe to the tensed, or tenseless theory of time?

[I MaFiA I]

cause this will stop them.

Meh, can't knock me for trying.


Also, what I mean by time is, people are finding a direct correlation between time and space when talking about time in a scientific sense. There are theories that the universe will stop growing and will contract causing a collapse of the entire universe, and for some reason that directly relates to time.

For the philosophical side, well, one could argue that time doesn't even exist at all, and it is just a false measurement humans use to get by. There are even theories of the universe "looping" (time repeating itself), although this may belong in the science category moreso than philosophy.

My point is, time isn't as simple as I thought it was. It's a lot deeper than "dat der measurement" and I was wondering if anyone here read up on it.

Well to start Mafia, do you subscribe to the tensed, or tenseless theory of time?

I have no idea what the difference is. Enlighten me.

[bdog1321]

I believe in a tensed measurement of time. Tensed means you can use words describing present, future, and past tenses. Untensed time doesn't use these words. I don't think the tenseless theory is valid, because there isn't a way that an untenser could say that it is presently 8:02 PM. They couldn't tell time, and since time is the center of the debate, well....

Oh well, I'm not really talking about what everyone else is anyways.

[R G]

Albert Einstein defined it this way:

“Time and space are modes by which we think and not conditions in which we live”

Kind of sums things up.

[Terps rock]

Also, what I mean by time is, people are finding a direct correlation between time and space when talking about time in a scientific sense.
Yea. Time can be seen as the fourth dimension. In order to meet someone somewhere. If just given longitude, latitude, and the floor number, You could wait all your life, but if there was no specified time you could wait there forever and never have the meeting for it could have all ready passed. Time is the fourth diminsion so that it zeros in on one exact position. In our universe the four dimensions are all you need.
There are theories that the universe will stop growing and will contract causing a collapse of the entire universe, and for some reason that directly relates to time.

Where?


For the philosophical side, well, one could argue that time doesn't even exist at all, and it is just a false measurement humans use to get by. There are even theories of the universe "looping" (time repeating itself), although this may belong in the science category moreso than philosophy.
Time exisits.

[Kyir]

Time exisits.

That's one argument.

Another is that everything forever has already happened.

Each moment is repeating.

[bdog1321]

That's one argument.

Another is that everything forever has already happened.

Each moment is repeating.

How can everything be predetermined? To have that, you would have to believe in a divine power, because nothing I know of can make that happen, and things are obviously changing.

[I'malive24/7]

That's one argument.

Another is that everything forever has already happened.

Each moment is repeating.

Or there's the side that everything is always happening.

[bdog1321]

Or there's the side that everything is always happening.

I told you Kyir is a Sith.

[Liquid Swordsman]

Time is a killer.

[Mithrandir]

For a good summary of major philosophy of time ideas, look here. http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/time/

[Anarchy_United]

Sorry, it needed to be done.
http://timecube.com/

[Kyir]

How can everything be predetermined? To have that, you would have to believe in a divine power, because nothing I know of can make that happen, and things are obviously changing.

Not predetermined.

That implies that things haven't happened already.

[I MaFiA I]

For a good summary of major philosophy of time ideas, look here. http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/time/

Ah, excellent reference. Thanks for linking me to that site, very valuable information.

Yea. Time can be seen as the fourth dimension. In order to meet someone somewhere. If just given longitude, latitude, and the floor number, You could wait all your life, but if there was no specified time you could wait there forever and never have the meeting for it could have all ready passed. Time is the fourth diminsion so that it zeros in on one exact position. In our universe the four dimensions are all you need.


This doesn't make sense. Time has nothing to do with location. Why would you need time to "zero in on one exact position"? You would need time to make and keep an appointment, not to get to it.

where?

I found that on another forum, the person who made the claim was just your average user though, so it's not something I'd swear by.

Time exisits

Not according to certain philosophical studies.

[Rubbish]

About time we had a discussion about time.

[I MaFiA I]

About time we had a discussion about time.

What you did there, I see.

[Japtch]

What you did there, I see.
I see what you did there.

[houckeah]

Energy = Space & Time

Space and time are the same material, know to many as spacetime. This is elementary physics, but theoretical at that. Einstein did muse upon the ideas but did not coin time as it is today, he did however introduce the concepts that allowed us to. Almost every theory pertaining to this area in theoretical physics in this regard assumes a universe wherein space and time are one. Granted, it is a rather large assumption, but it is one that has been tested without fail in the relativity world. Then quantum mechanics weighed in and started to ruin these theories. The theory of quantum mechanics blows spacetime out of the water, and in fact blows most of relativity out of the water. This is why quantum mechanics and relativity often clash. I often prescribe to the theory of relativity over quantum mechanics, however quantum mechanics has more proof herein (such as proof shown to us w/ evidence of sub atomic particles).

The true beauty of this theory, that being relativity, is introduced with matter. Matter has the ability to warp spacetime. When you introduce matter, the spacial dimensions become warped, and this gravity is the result. More importantly for our conversation, when you introduce matter in extreme densities to the fabric of spacetime, it stretches time and therein alters how we may experience time as compared to another observer. Thus at the inner most point of a black hole... well, time very well might stop (or go very very slow).

Time exists, but if time exists as we know it is the question I see a few of you asking... and a silly question at that. Granted, because we experience time in this way so it surely does have some different properties than the other spacial 3 dimensions. However, there are theories saying everything that has happened already did happen. I suggest that this is trivial because regardless, yet again, we are experiencing a flow of time.



Good thread! This idea has caused me to read many books, even though I hate reading, and attend many classes, even though I hate school. Truly, all we have is theory at the end of the day... but I'd love to see your reply to the theories I hold true.

I'm sorry, but I had to comment on how blatantly wrong this is. Time does not measure how fast things go. That would be speed. Speed is distance over time.

You are right though in that it is a unit of measurement like grams, gallons or miles.

I think you could more accurately describe time as a way to measure a distance between instances/moments.

How do you pose we measure instances or moments? You need to be able to measure instances or moments, or at the very least describe them in an elementary way, to describe time in such a manner.

According to your description, time does not exist in the vasts of space where there is nothing to tell the difference between one moment and another?

[Wizzy`]

I think Dirka watches a lot of Nat Geo and Science Channel.


Before we get into an argument..
I'm kidding.

[Jeffery]

Time is.

[Terps rock]

That's one argument.

Another is that everything forever has already happened.

Each moment is repeating.
Ok, so. If one believes that time still exists. Time does not need to be in the present to be time.



This doesn't make sense. Time has nothing to do with location. Why would you need time to "zero in on one exact position"? You would need time to make and keep an appointment, not to get to it.



I found that on another forum, the person who made the claim was just your average user though, so it's not something I'd swear by.



Not according to certain philosophical studies.
Time has everything to do with location. If I say I am at my house, and then you come to see me, but I'm no longer there.

In the same way that if I gave you my longitude and latitude, but didn't tell you what floor in the building was on. I didn't tell my third dimension coordinates. Time is the fourth dimension.

The fifth dimension is like a parallel universe that may have a few changes like you living in a different city or Earth not having life forms. The sixth is an infinite number of parallel universes. And I forget the rest, but I think there are eleven.This could be wrong, but this is from memory so forgive me.

And Dirka, Do quantum mechanics and Einstein's theory of relativity really contradict each other, or is it that quantum mechanics applies to really small things where gravity is extremely weak/negligible compared to other forces. And relativity applying to larger matter? This is question. I may be wrong. :eek:

[I MaFiA I]

Ok, so. If one believes that time still exists. Time does not need to be in the present to be time.

Time has everything to do with location. If I say I am at my house, and then you come to see me, but I'm no longer there.

In the same way that if I gave you my longitude and latitude, but didn't tell you what floor in the building was on. I didn't tell my third dimension coordinates. Time is the fourth dimension.

The fifth dimension is like a parallel universe that may have a few changes like you living in a different city or Earth not having life forms. The sixth is an infinite number of parallel universes. And I forget the rest, but I think there are eleven.This could be wrong, but this is from memory so forgive me.

And Dirka, Do quantum mechanics and Einstein's theory of relativity really contradict each other, or is it that quantum mechanics applies to really small things where gravity is extremely weak/negligible compared to other forces. And relativity applying to larger matter? This is question. I may be wrong. :eek:

Forgive me, for I have not understood your point yet. I'm sure I will, it will just take time. I think my problem is I am seeing location in a strictly geographical sense, when I need to think on a larger scale than that.

Also, dirka, you won't get an argument from me because I'm here to learn and sponge up all information and knowledge given, I am in no position to really argue my stance on anything related to time yet.

[houckeah]

Also, dirka, you won't get an argument from me because I'm here to learn and sponge up all information and knowledge given, I am in no position to really argue my stance on anything related to time yet.

Fair enough. I suggest you google the name Michio Kaku. I don't know if I spelled it correctly but surely google will fix it. He is surely the most intelligent mind of our day when it comes ti theoretical physics. He has coined many theories, most importantly he has made hyperspace theory (which is a theory of space existing in 10 dimensions) easy to understand. His muses upon time as well as space have helped me understand physics as I know it today. He not only is coming up with new theories but he is writing books making old theories easier to understand. I would advise you to please, look him up, maybe look around on youtube for him. He will help you understand time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnkE2yQPw6s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X02WMNoHSm8
These are just a few that came up first, please don't stop here...

I have a passion for this, trust me with this advice.

I think Dirka watches a lot of Nat Geo and Science Channel.


Before we get into an argument..
I'm kidding.

Kidding or not, you didn't offend me. I'm not here to argue, either. I actually appreciate your particular type of humility and your brand of sincere posting. You aren't one of the people I dislike, Wizzy. I am sorry if you thought you were as a result of my being unkind.

Ok, so. If one believes that time still exists. Time does not need to be in the present to be time.

Time has everything to do with location. If I say I am at my house, and then you come to see me, but I'm no longer there.

In the same way that if I gave you my longitude and latitude, but didn't tell you what floor in the building was on. I didn't tell my third dimension coordinates. Time is the fourth dimension.
This is very interesting. Your thoughts are 3 spatial dimensions and 1 temporal dimensions but all describing location. This isn't particularly wrong, if you treat the temporal dimension similar to that of the spatial dimensions. The fact is, this is correct but not as we experience it. The running theory states that space and time are the same material, so if space can describe location then so can time. The running theory also muses that the 4 dimensions of spacetime can rotate into each other, and surely if space can become time and time become space then space and time can both describe location. I think where the fundamental flaw in this is that we describe location with the three spacial dimensions. We experience time differently than the other 3 dimensions. I would say that we use time to show location at a certain moment. However, this isn't particularly correct either because I can't fundamentally describe a certain moment.

The fifth dimension is like a parallel universe that may have a few changes like you living in a different city or Earth not having life forms. The sixth is an infinite number of parallel universes. And I forget the rest, but I think there are eleven.This could be wrong, but this is from memory so forgive me.
A lot of the running theories use 10 or 11 dimensions. The reason this is done is because the laws of physics can break down in higher dimensions and become more elegant. I'll show an example below. Most of the running theories don't describe the 10 or 11 dimensions as parallel universes.

Think for a moment that gravity is a result of the bending of spacetime. We experience gravity, and thus can't just walk straight up into the air, because the 3 spacial dimensions we reside in are warped. This might be hard to think of, but the general concept is that we can describe gravity easily when we use the 3 dimensions of space. Similarly, imagine you are an ant walking on a flat piece of paper (spacetime). Effortlessly you could walk in any direction. Now, imagine you are an ant walking on a crumbled piece of paper. If you walked over one of the folds and started to walk vertically on the paper, some what unexplained to yourself as an ant, you would experience a force pulling you back to where you were. So with this ant, in his 2 dimensional world, these forces he experiences while walking can be summarized as folds on a crumbled piece of paper.
Please, let me know if you don't understand how this relates to making forces more elegant, as in easier to explain, by summarizing them in higher dimensions.

And Dirka, Do quantum mechanics and Einstein's theory of relativity really contradict each other, or is it that quantum mechanics applies to really small things where gravity is extremely weak/negligible compared to other forces. And relativity applying to larger matter? This is question. I may be wrong. :eek:
They do in a lot of respects. I understand what you are saying. The problem is that the laws of physics don't change depending on how big something is. Quantum mechanics is like a huge book of small rules that govern physics. Relativity is like a small set of general rules that govern physics.

The problem is that it appears we can't describe gravity with both quantum mechanics and relativity. This is the only force that conflicts. When we try to describe gravity using one theory then the other theory doesn't apply anymore. I know this as a fact, I'm just trying to find why now.. lol.

[Angelic-Hotfox]

Time is a word created by humans to measure...well...really the length of a day from sun up to sun down. When humans began to realize that they needed a way of measuring the length of days for reasons such as hunting, gathering, and agriculture and began noticing a pattern in seasons they eventually needed a chart or guide so they could predict flood seasons, winters, when to store food, etc...

but that might be a better answer for "what is a day or what is a calendar" really but essentially time is a precise, never ending calender in which events take place over. I think time is just based off the sun and the concept of night and day... I don't know now I'm confused and this question hurts my head.

[bdog1321]

Well, food is one of the three exceptions to Gamp's Law of Elemental Transfiguration.... Therefore you are all wrong.

[Terps rock]

This is very interesting. Your thoughts are 3 spatial dimensions and 1 temporal dimensions but all describing location. This isn't particularly wrong, if you treat the temporal dimension similar to that of the spatial dimensions. The fact is, this is correct but not as we experience it. The running theory states that space and time are the same material, so if space can describe location then so can time. The running theory also muses that the 4 dimensions of spacetime can rotate into each other, and surely if space can become time and time become space then space and time can both describe location. I think where the fundamental flaw in this is that we describe location with the three spacial dimensions. We experience time differently than the other 3 dimensions. I would say that we use time to show location at a certain moment. However, this isn't particularly correct either because I can't fundamentally describe a certain moment.


A lot of the running theories use 10 or 11 dimensions. The reason this is done is because the laws of physics can break down in higher dimensions and become more elegant. I'll show an example below. Most of the running theories don't describe the 10 or 11 dimensions as parallel universes.

Think for a moment that gravity is a result of the bending of spacetime. We experience gravity, and thus can't just walk straight up into the air, because the 3 spacial dimensions we reside in are warped. This might be hard to think of, but the general concept is that we can describe gravity easily when we use the 3 dimensions of space. Similarly, imagine you are an ant walking on a flat piece of paper (spacetime). Effortlessly you could walk in any direction. Now, imagine you are an ant walking on a crumbled piece of paper. If you walked over one of the folds and started to walk vertically on the paper, some what unexplained to yourself as an ant, you would experience a force pulling you back to where you were. So with this ant, in his 2 dimensional world, these forces he experiences while walking can be summarized as folds on a crumbled piece of paper.
Please, let me know if you don't understand how this relates to making forces more elegant, as in easier to explain, by summarizing them in higher dimensions.


They do in a lot of respects. I understand what you are saying. The problem is that the laws of physics don't change depending on how big something is. Quantum mechanics is like a huge book of small rules that govern physics. Relativity is like a small set of general rules that govern physics.

The problem is that it appears we can't describe gravity with both quantum mechanics and relativity. This is the only force that conflicts. When we try to describe gravity using one theory then the other theory doesn't apply anymore. I know this as a fact, I'm just trying to find why now.. lol.

We experience time differently then the first three dimensions, because we are three dimensional beings. I believe that if a fourth dimensional being were to exist, which they might, I believe they would see time as just another dimension. The problem is that we wouldn't what they look like because like when you step on a 2D surface all that is on the 2D surface is your footprint. We would get a 3D "footprint" of them.

The ant thing is confusing. I understand the idea of gravity warping the spacetime grid, but I watched another video with an ant on a 2d surface that I didn't understand either.

What I believe, which is caused by my low understanding of both theories is that there can an equation to govern all the forces, but when you get down to such a small scale to where they determined the laws of quantum mechanics, gravity is basically negilible because of the mass is so small.
If you can prove this wrong please do, because I don't want my super cool beliefs to be impossible.

[I MaFiA I]

Time is a word created by humans to measure...well...really the length of a day from sun up to sun down. When humans began to realize that they needed a way of measuring the length of days for reasons such as hunting, gathering, and agriculture and began noticing a pattern in seasons they eventually needed a chart or guide so they could predict flood seasons, winters, when to store food, etc...

but that might be a better answer for "what is a day or what is a calendar" really but essentially time is a precise, never ending calender in which events take place over. I think time is just based off the sun and the concept of night and day... I don't know now I'm confused and this question hurts my head.

Go back in the kitchen, woman. This isn't your place.

[Angelic-Hotfox]

Go back in the kitchen, woman. This isn't your place.

so mean :(

[Punishment]

In my humble opinion this thread is a poorly thought out attempt to look smart.

Time measures how long stuff takes. It was created by humans to measure how long stuff took/takes.

[I MaFiA I]

In my humble opinion this thread is a poorly thought out attempt to look smart.

Time measures how long stuff takes. It was created by humans to measure how long stuff took/takes.

Funny, because it's a well-known fact you're an idiotic druggie that has nothing better to do with his life than post your events during your acid/weed/LSD/ecstasy trips on TAO.

I posted this to attain knowledge on a subject I previously knew very little about, so now I'm trying to appear smart? Whatever bro, one day you're going to get high to escape all the pain and depression you feel while sober, and even while you're high you're still going to feel that pain and you're going to off yourself. I hope that day is near.

Back on subject,

For the people that are arguing that time is actually real, do you believe time as we know it is real? As in, the measurement of time we go by, do you believe that really is the definition of time, or do you believe that it is just something we use as humans to get by because we cannot comprehend that fourth dimension.

[2xfire]

The time is 4:18p.m. /end of discussion.

[Punishment]

mafia,

what is there to know about time?

It's an arbitrary thing... it was created by people to gauge how long something takes. What is there to know about it?

I mean, you might want to know about how long X has been in existance, but time itself isn't the most complicated of subjects..

[Terps rock]

For the people that are arguing that time is actually real, do you believe time as we know it is real? As in, the measurement of time we go by, do you believe that really is the definition of time, or do you believe that it is just something we use as humans to get by because we cannot comprehend that fourth dimension.

What?

[R G]

I do feel that time is a time, but the perception of time is a totally different thing.

For instance when you a were a little kid didn't it seem like it took forever for Santa to come, but when you get older Christmas comes and goes almost with what seem like a blink of the eye. It all has to do with your perception of time. If you are a little kid you haven't lived long so your perception is it takes a long time for Christmas to come because several months is a much larger part of you life....conversely if you are older several months is just a small portion of your life and it will seem to come much faster.


Same amount of time...but a different perception...much like a mile walking seems longer if you are walking than if you are taking your granny's car for a drag race:p Just had to throw that in there.... :)

[I MaFiA I]

I do feel that time is a time, but the perception of time is a totally different thing.

For instance when you a were a little kid didn't it seem like it took forever for Santa to come, but when you get older Christmas comes and goes almost with what seem like a blink of the eye. It all has to do with your perception of time. If you are a little kid you haven't lived long so your perception is it takes a long time for Christmas to come because several months is a much larger part of you life....conversely if you are older several months is just a small portion of your life and it will seem to come much faster.


Same amount of time...but a different perception...much like a mile walking seems longer if you are walking than if you are taking your granny's car for a drag race:p Just had to throw that in there.... :)

LOL nice one....I wish it was people here that believe time doesn't exist so I can see both sides of the proverbial coin.

[iceman2001]

Go to whatever crappy college you go to, and take philosophy 101. Either that, or pm me your address and i'll send you my text book. Be warned however, its not a fun subject.

[I MaFiA I]

Go to whatever crappy college you go to, and take philosophy 101. Either that, or pm me your address and i'll send you my text book. Be warned however, its not a fun subject.

How the hell do you figure Philosophy isn't interesting? Are you just shallow, or was the course just too simple for you?

I R CONFUZE

[Unforgottner]

Lol, I used to tell time. Soon afterwards, I realized I had a penis and never checked the time again. I was 12. I still feel gay for checking to see if it was noon at 12 years old.

[I MaFiA I]

Lol, I used to tell time. Soon afterwards, I realized I had a penis and never checked the time again. I was 12. I still feel gay for checking to see if it was noon at 12 years old.

fail parody post is fail.