Elitism Defined. Join the Pyro Pyrates!

[xyxaxyz2]

I've realized during my time as leader that, in a clan that recruits such a wide variety of players as ours, the most important quality besides loyalty in becoming a trusted clan member is ideological agreement with the principles of the Pyro Pyrates, especially, anti-elitism. Therefore, I think it is time that I define anti-elitism once in for all, in the hope that more people that understand its philosophy will join our clan and spread its message.

In order to understand anti-elitism, one must first understand elitism. I would break up elitism into two parts. 1) exclusivity and 2) entitlement. Exclusivity is the practice of excluding people of a certain type or types from the group. Entitlement is the belief that this group deserves something greater than all other groups, because they are somehow better than those other groups. It is possible to have one of the elitist qualities without the other; a clan of real life friends may exclude everyone they don't know, but they don't neccesarily believe that they deserve any more than anyone else.

The clan "Knights of the Round" is an example of an elitist group. It excludes many applicants through its voting process, a system in which all current members vote on whether to let in a new group member. And it thinks it deserves a higher status than other clans because of this exclusion.

Some of us here in the Pyro Pyrates believe that elitism is inherently wrong. This belief is called "anti-elitism." Many of us here think that elitism goes directly against the belief in equality of humanity.

This is a somewhat simplified version of the philosophies of elitism and anti-elitism as defined by me. If you have any questions feel free to ask. And if you want to join our clan, please PM me!

[Omega_Paladin]

So according to your defintion you are an elitist. You exclude those who are elitist so you can claim you are anti-elitist thereby making yourself elite.

[xyxaxyz2]

Incorrect. Since its inception, the policy of the Pyro Pyrates has been to accept all elitist applicants with the hope that their membership would encourage them to change their ways.

[Sir Vilhelm]

Not to attack anybody... just a question (because I do not know):

Do the Pyrates require you to demonstrate skill or beat someone before you can join?

[xyxaxyz2]

No.

[Aro23r]

Originally posted by xyxaxyz2


Some of us here in the Pyro Pyrates believe that elitism is inherently wrong. This belief is called "anti-elitism." Many of us here think that elitism goes directly against the belief in equality of humanity.



It is a proven fact that man is not equal. I cannot play sports, yet I assume many of you here can play sports. Sometimes, i wish i could play sports, but I cannot, i do not think we are equal. Some people are just better than others. Some people attain more in life and get ahead.

It is impossible to make a remark that ALL men are equal, (Yes, in law, all men are equal), but in most all other aspects, men are not equal.

Even the Founding Fathers of America were elitists. Read the Original Constitution, as the Founding Fathers wrote it. The ONLY place where the common man had any power was in the House of Representitives,and that house had little or no power. The electoral system kept the Presidency out of the hands of the people, and senators were the MOST elite group of them all. Senators had strict rules to become one, and had the longest term, to avoid common people to change them.
(If you are not from America, bad example, but if you are, i think you can relate).

[xyxaxyz2]

The equality of humankind is not absolute. But all men have equal innate value, and deserve to be treated in certain ways based on that value.

Of course the founding fathers of America were elitists, they were the elite. But for their time they certaintly weren't as elitist as most in the elite, and your examples are not good ones.

If you read the constitution section 4-4, you'll see this: "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government."

The common man, therefore, controlled the legislatures and indirectly controlled the senate through that. Of course Republican form of government sometimes meant that only protestant white male land owner commoners had the right to control their government, but we have decided today that that was wrong then. And it was, just as all forms of elitism are.

A key purpose of senator's long term was to protect the country from rash decisions that would lead to the abuse of the minority by a majority. Which is another of the world's 3 great evils, one I won't get into right now.

[Warcow]

This thread seems like an attack on our clan in a way since we are infact "the elite" yes we accept only gold talented members however this is not to exclude others, in a way accepting them into our clan would be unfair since we are so competitive and therefore this would not be equality. The gold members have additional units compared to the grey members and this is an unbalance, thus to test them as elite is not fait either as they are not on a level playing field. By keeping our clan gold only it promotes equality within our own clan.

[xyxaxyz2]

The anti-elitism of the Pyro Pyrates outdates "the elite" by a month and a day. Just check the start dates of our clan threads.

That said, of course this is an attack on your clan and all other elitist clans. I don't know what you mean by competitive- you can be competitive without being exclusive.

We have no real objection to gold only clans, since they do not necccesarily make claims of superiority and entitlement.

[Warcow]

The age of our clans is kind of irrelevant no? Id say no matter how young our clan is it has a great reputation . . .

[Omega_Paladin]

I cannot speak for my whole clan but, Something Wicked is gold exclusive because I believe that we feel that if you enjoy the game you should support it. And if there is someone that we don't enjoy being around there is no point in letting them in the clan to annoy us. This is a game.

[xyxaxyz2]

Warcow: I apologize; I misread your first post. I thought you meant that the anti-elitism of the Pyro Pyrates was an attack on your clan specifically.

OP: I've already said:

We have no real objection to gold only clans, since they do not necccesarily make claims of superiority and entitlement.

A gold only clan does not neccesarily fulfill the second quality of elitism. Nor do all other forms of clan entry requirements.

[Lord Achilles]

I look at it this way:

If a Gold account member decides to create a clan, his first priority is to design a set of rules for it, or a foundation if you will. This meaning he has to decide what guidlines his members must abide by to obtain clan status first of all, and to avoid expulsion. Now whether he just lets anybody in, or goes by "I only want the best" is his choice that he must make. I for examople head the Bushido Gaiden clan on the Great Lakes server, (Which I might add is the best server ;)) I tryout most members personally, frequently I have my other members do the recruiting. I am trying to establish the best grey account-accepting clan on the server, and by many's opinion, I already have. But then look at Demonhunter League for example, they are headed by Aro, a very good player, one of the best I've ever played, but it required little or no skill to get in to his clan. If you read his thread it's his clans top priority to train the newcomers (notice how I'm trying to refrain from the term "Newb" as I am trying to be less offensive.) so that the server has a richer amount of better players later on. He may not have the best clan but he has taken on a job that the rest of us didn't want, and I myself repect that. Like Xy said, he beleives it is wrong to only accept the "Elitest" as he put it, I think that it may hurt there feelings if they're rejected, but if the leader wants a clan of only the best that's his choice. I think you're being a little extreme calling it "inhumane" it's not like by turning them down we're creating a new holacaust, the holacaust is inhumane, torchering people is inhumane, not turning someone down status in your clan for an online computer game. Whatever the leader chooses is his choice, sure it may hurt people's feelings, but hey...it's just a game.

And no offense to anyone in there, I wasn't bashing anyone or anything they said, just my opinion :)

[Bottle]

Oops sorry, please ignore me:D

[Omega_Paladin]

Don't worry bottle, we always do...:D

[search66]

Best of luck

[royalfire]

Most philosophic thread ever. by the way, what are the other 2 of the
Three great evils ????

[xyxaxyz2]

Thanks. The second of the 2 is mobism, in a broad sense. I'm not going to talk about the 3rd yet.

[thrdflrmshr]

Could you kindly define mobism, as it does not appear in the (online) Merriam-Webster dictionary. All I got from a Google search is that it is somehow related to the opposite of democracy and has something to do with mobs/riots. Am I correct? Please enlighten me.

[xyxaxyz2]

Basically, mobism is rule by the masses, but specifically in the way I used it, mobism refers to any group that places a higher value on itself than on individual members.

"Mobism" because it is the mob mentality that rules, not individuals (though individuals can sometimes start mob movements). Creativity, Individuality, Reasoning is stifled as the mob moves in a direction specified by the mass as a whole.

Mobism isn't the opposite of democracy, mobism is pure democracy. The often used example (by the founders of this country, so I hear) is the execution of Socrates by the pure democracy of Athens.

Mobs, like elitists, are purists. That is, they don't accept certain differences in their membership. There are clear TAO examples of mob activity: DKwarrior is a perfect example; so is AFI. While TAO elitists exclude n00bs due to a feeling of superiority, TAO mobists will gang upon individuals that for some reason don't subscribe to the rules of the group.

Real life example of major mobism- Organized religion.

Individualism has gone a great deal towards reducing mobism in the modern world. The main holdouts of mobism, besides the aformentioned example, are in our personal communities, where certain individuals are excluded from some mostly-open social circles, and in synthesis with elitism: Nationalism, racism, and similar philosophies.

If you have any questions, please ask. I might have missed a key point or two.

[royalfire]

somehow I think I may have found hints that you are going to do columns on Mobism and Great Evil #3. That is just too plain mysterious not to be a preclude to something. Am I right?
By the way, in my opinion, Pyro Pyrates is the best clan:)
(not trying to sound suck-up-ish)

[resurgent247]

YOu have shot yourself in the face and are hipocritical xyxaxyz2
I am as aro
I can play some sports, like track but I am more of a smart person then a skilled in muscle. you dont let certain people into your group wich is judging, one of the clear perceptive points in your arguement, so how can u call yourself non-judging?

[xyxaxyz2]

When did I call myself non-judging? Thats basically the purpose of this thread, to judge....