Suggested Secondary Abilities for Existing Units

[Lord Wevilspore]

The following suggestions are for Concentration, click and hold ala Mud Golem, abilities for each unit.

Knight:

Defense Mode: -12 Power, +12 Armor

Odd number of Concentrates activates
Even number of Concentrates reset values

Recovery: 1 Turn (Same as Action)

Assassin:

Make its present Action ability the Concentration ability

Action: Range 3, Area of Effect 1, Power 9 (or 1/2 Assassin's Power) LOS Blockable Attack

Recovery: 1 Turn (Same as Action)

Scout:

Arch Mode: Range -3, Attack is non-LOS

Odd number activates
Even number resets

Recovery: 1 Turn (Same as Action)

Pyromancer:

Fire Shield: -5 (or -1/3 Pyro's) Power, All melee attack attmepts on Pyro cause a 5 (or 1/3 Pyro's) Power Unblockable against its attacker.

Odd # activates
Even # resets

Recovery: 1 Turn (Same as Move)

Dark Magic Witch:

Dark Empowerment: +6 Power, -1 (or 2?) Area of Effect

Odd # activates
Even # resets

Recovery: 1 Turn (Same as Move)

Cleric:

Suggested in my other thread (http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=4494), make its present Action ability the Concentration ability.

Action: Range 4, Area of Effect 2, Power 24 Heal

Recovery: 2 Turns (Same as Move)

Enchantress:

Make its present Action ability the Concentration ability.

Addition:
While Focusing, May move 1 Paralyzed Unit to any square within the same Area of Effect. (Moved unit must remain within 2 Squares of Enchantress. Moved unit may NOT act or concentrate.)

Action: Stun: Range 3, Area of Effect 2, Adds a Wait Time of 1 Turn (Note: This is not a Focus ability.)

Recovery: 2 Turns (Same as current Action)

Barrier Ward:

Suggestions?

Lightining Ward:

Suggestions?

Mud Golem:

This is what started this whole thought.

Frost Golem:

Ice Blast: Power 5 (increase?), Radius 0 (around self), Area of Effect 3 (2 squares around self) LOS Blockable attack

Recovery: 1 Turn (Same as Action)

Stone Golem:

Suggestions?

Dragon Tyrant:

Suggestions?

Beast Rider:

Suggestions?

Furgon:

Shrub Feast: Destroy all shrubs one space around Furgon. Furgon Heals 4 Hit Points (1/12 of Hit Points) for each Bush destroyed.

Recovery: 1 Turn (Same as Action)

Some Final Thoughts

There are some difficulties with this. Mainly, some units can target itself with its Action: Pyromancer, Cleric, Barrier Ward, Lightining Ward (Why? I will never know.), Stone Golem, and Furgon. How would they perform the Concentration ability? Would they be able to do this? Is it as simple as making sure you don't click three times in a row before you held?

These questions need to be answered before this can be implemented.

I have noticed lately that alot of people are posting units with a Concentration ability that had it target a square. The Concentration ability should not be an ability that requires a target. Look at the Mud Golem's. There is no Target area that comes up when you do it. All other Concentrations should be along those lines. Ok, ranting done.

Feedback on this thread would be immensly useful.

[moosey2]

I like some and i dislike some ill post some things to change later on.

[LondonJack]

Honestly, i don't think all units need a secondary attack, some units are powerful enough as is...

More armor for a knight (able to get up to 67% armor stoned, which is 10 damage from an Lward, that's a little much), more power for a witch (able to one hit a pyro), these aren't things that will help the game.

Some units however i agree with you could use a little sprucing up.

Namely these units:

Assassin: your suggestion isn't a bad one, but i don't think the game needs more "scouts" breaking focus personally. My suggestion would be to have the assassin's concentration attack be a poison attack. She attempts (blockable attack) to poison a single target within her normal attack range. Poison does 10 at time of attack, then 8 at the end of the poisoned unit's controller's next turn, then 6, then 4, then 2 (total 30 over 4 turns, armor doesn't affect poison, and it breaks focus). Poison can be cured by a heal, but the unit is only cured, it doesn't regain health. (this damage is probably a little excessive for the assassin, so maybe she gets +1 recovery using this attack)

Beast Rider: i think what would help the BR isn't a new attack, but instead to recognize that this unit is both a rider and a beast. My suggestion here is that the health is for the rider. So when its health reachs zero (damaged doesn't carry over) the rider dies but the beast remains. To kill the beast all that is required is any attack, regardless of damage (like a shrub). While the beast is still alive the unit may be moved (normal recover) but can't attack. If the BR is healed the rider revives allowing both movement and attacking again.

Barrier Ward: concentration attack: creates a 3 x 3 barrier (centered on the BW) that lasts until the end of your opponent's next turn. No unit or attack may cross the barrier (not even teleporters), but anyone within the barrier may interact normally (this includes clerics, a cleric that heals could heal all units inside or outside the barrier, depending on whether or not the cleric was inside or outside the barrier). Attacking the barrier would damage it and end the shield early (by about half a turn, but still someone might want to damage the BW with a melee unit)

Furgon: I like your suggestion here, it's a good idea, there's a couple things i would add to it. 1) that furgons can move through (although not stop on) any shrub. and 2) that they can also make a wall of 5 straight shrubs (this could be accomplished by adding single squares to the extreme edges of the furgon's attack range (5 in front of the furgie, etc) and if you want a wall just click on one of those solo squares)

and maybe the Pryomancer, although with the DSM they are doing alot better these days.

[royalfire]

London Jack's ideas are good!

My ideas:

Beast Rider: special move, may jump over a piece within 2 spaces, but lands just beyond it

For example, (B-BR, U-unit, L-landing spot O-mt square)

OU L
B OO
O OO
with BR facing> before jump

B U L

B O U L

etc.

LW: a ball lightning LOS attack where it hits a square up to 2 spaces (straight line only) away, and the attack reshoots same direction and distance from hit unit, continuing unit it runs out of targets or hits the end of the board. Barriered units allow it to reshoot but don't deal damage. This would probably only be 25, 20 dmg to keep it even.

I love the scout idea.
Also I think it would be cool to have another LOS focus breaker(assassin idea)

[Lord Wevilspore]

Knight:Origin: Me
Defense Mode: -12 Power, +12 Armor

Odd number of Concentrates activates
Even number of Concentrates reset values

Recovery: 1 Turn (Same as Action)Origin: LondonJack
More armor for a knight (able to get up to 67% armor stoned, which is 10 damage from an Lward, that's a little much)Your right. They would have an Armor of 67, but they also would have a Power of 10.

In Defence Mode (Yeah. I know. Not intended to sound like Yugioh.), it would take 3 blows, 4 if he heals, to take out the CLERIC, arguably the wimpiest unit in the game only surpassed by the shrub.

Assassin:Origin: Me
Make its present Action ability the Concentration ability

Action: Range 3, Area of Effect 1, Power 9 (or 1/2 Assassin's Power) LOS Blockable Attack

Recovery: 1 Turn (Same as Action)Origin: LondonJack
your suggestion isn't a bad one, but i don't think the game needs more "scouts" breaking focus personally. My suggestion would be to have the assassin's concentration attack be a poison attack. She attempts (blockable attack) to poison a single target within her normal attack range. Poison does 10 at time of attack, then 8 at the end of the poisoned unit's controller's next turn, then 6, then 4, then 2 (total 30 over 4 turns, armor doesn't affect poison, and it breaks focus). Poison can be cured by a heal, but the unit is only cured, it doesn't regain health. (this damage is probably a little excessive for the assassin, so maybe she gets +1 recovery using this attack)Only problem with your idea, LondonJack, Concentration abilities should not have a target. Look at the Mud Golem and my suggestions. All the Concentrations have no required target for these abilities.

Scout:Origin: Me
Arch Mode: Range -3, Attack is non-LOS

Odd number activates
Even number resets

Recovery: 1 Turn (Same as Action)Unless anyone can think of anything better, I am staying with the original idea.

Pyromancer:Origin: Me
Fire Shield: -5 (or -1/3 Pyro's) Power, All melee attack attmepts on Pyro cause a 5 (or 1/3 Pyro's) Power Unblockable against its attacker.

Odd # activates
Even # resets

Recovery: 1 Turn (Same as Move)Unless anyone can think of anything better, I am staying with the original idea.

Dark Magic Witch:Origin: Me
Dark Empowerment: +6 Power, -1 (or 2?) Area of Effect

Odd # activates
Even # resets

Recovery: 1 Turn (Same as Move)Origin: LondonJack
more power for a witch (able to one hit a pyro)True. She could one kill a Pyro, if she got close enough.

Dark Empowerment: +6 Power, -2 Area of Effect

This will give her 30 Power but only a Beast Rider's Area of Effect.

Cleric:Origin: Me
Suggested in my other thread (http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=4494), make its present Action ability the Concentration ability.

Action: Range 4, Area of Effect 2, Power 24 Heal

Recovery: 2 Turns (Same as Move)Enough said.

Enchantress:Origin: Me
Make its present Action ability the Concentration ability.

Addition:
While Focusing, May move 1 Paralyzed Unit to any square within the same Area of Effect. (Moved unit must remain within 2 Squares of Enchantress. Moved unit may NOT act or concentrate.)

Action: Stun: Range 3, Area of Effect 2, Adds a Wait Time of 1 Turn (Note: This is not a Focus ability.)

Recovery: 2 Turns (Same as current Action)Unless anyone can think of anything better, I am staying with the original idea.

Barrier Ward:Origin: LondonJack
concentration attack: creates a 3 x 3 barrier (centered on the BW) that lasts until the end of your opponent's next turn. No unit or attack may cross the barrier (not even teleporters), but anyone within the barrier may interact normally (this includes clerics, a cleric that heals could heal all units inside or outside the barrier, depending on whether or not the cleric was inside or outside the barrier). Attacking the barrier would damage it and end the shield early (by about half a turn, but still someone might want to damage the BW with a melee unit)Everything is clear except: Attacking the barrier would damage it and end the shield early? The wide area Barrier spell is not a bad idea.

My suggestions:

1) Make it last until the Barrier Ward recovers.
2) Units inside the area can leave the Protected Area but cannot reenter once they have left.
3) Units inside cannot perform acts outside the Barrier, including Area of Effect "splash."
4) Area is similar to the Enchantresses Area of Effect, as opposed to just a 3X3 square.
5) All units are affected as if under Barrier, so a Cleric's heal will only affect units outside the area, even if the Cleric in question is inside the area.
6) This ability, unlike it's Focus action, should defeat Focus spells.

Lightning Ward:Origin: royalfire
a ball lightning LOS attack where it hits a square up to 2 spaces (straight line only) away, and the attack reshoots same direction and distance from hit unit, continuing unit it runs out of targets or hits the end of the board. Barriered units allow it to reshoot but don't deal damage. This would probably only be 25, 20 dmg to keep it even.Again with having the Concentration ability target something.

My suggestion:

Concentration: Fills every empty square around the LW with Ball Lightning. LW must focus to maitain the units.

Ball Lightning:

Power: 30*
Range: 0
AoE: 3

Hit Points: 14
Armor: 18
Block: 10 (Ward Style)

Move: 3
Recovery: 2

* - Each turn that a Ball Lightning is moved but not performed its action, its Power is reduced by 5. When Power reaches 0, the unit is destroyed.

Action: Self-Destruct - Hits every unit around it with an Unblockable attack. The Ball Lightning is destroyed in the process.

Frost Golem:Origin: Me
Ice Blast: Power 5 (increase?), Radius 0 (around self), Area of Effect 3 (2 squares around self) LOS Blockable attack

Recovery: 1 Turn (Same as Action)Unless anyone can think of anything better, I am staying with the original idea.

Stone Golem:

Suggestions?

Dragon Tyrant:

Tail Whip: Hits back 3 squares with Tail.

XXX XX
XCCCX
XCDCX
XXAXX
XXAXX
XXAXX
XXXXX

X = Empty Area
D = Dragon Tyrant (Facing Down)
A = Action Space
C = Concentration Space

Beast Rider:Origin: LondonJack
i think what would help the BR isn't a new attack, but instead to recognize that this unit is both a rider and a beast. My suggestion here is that the health is for the rider. So when its health reachs zero (damaged doesn't carry over) the rider dies but the beast remains. To kill the beast all that is required is any attack, regardless of damage (like a shrub). While the beast is still alive the unit may be moved (normal recover) but can't attack. If the BR is healed the rider revives allowing both movement and attacking again.Origin: royalfire
special move, may jump over a piece within 2 spaces, but lands just beyond it

For example, (B-BR, U-unit, L-landing spot O-mt square)

OU L
B OO
O OO
with BR facing> before jump

B U L

B O U L

etc.My 2 cents:

Charge Attack - As long as Beast Rider has neither Acted nor Moved, it will move up to its full movement in a straight line, through other units, stopping short of the edge or any Ward in its path. The attack is Unblockable. The damage done to each unit varies on distance covered between Rider and target. Each empty square adds 5 Power to the Damage. Each unit hit reduces Power by 5. Each unit hit inflicts an Unblockable (Rider's Space Power + 1) / 5 attack on the Beast Rider. If there is a unit in the last square, the unit receives damage then is displaced to the next square in the path of the Charge, to the sides if the back square is occupied. If no empty space exists immediately to the sides of the last square, treat the unit as an edge or Ward.

X = Outside Path
E = Empty Square
P = Pyromancer
K = Knight
S = Scout
B = Barrier Ward
R = Beast Rider

0123456 - 1 Power: 19
XXXXXKX - 2 Power: 19
XRPKEPB - 3 Power: 14
XXXXXSX - 4 Power: 09
XXXXXXX - 5 Power: -- (No Square to push end Pyromancer.)

Furgon:Origin: Me
Shrub Feast: Destroy all shrubs one space around Furgon. Furgon Heals 4 Hit Points (1/12 of Hit Points) for each Bush destroyed.

Recovery: 1 Turn (Same as Action)Origin: LondonJack
I like your suggestion here, it's a good idea, there's a couple things i would add to it. 1) that furgons can move through (although not stop on) any shrub. and 2) that they can also make a wall of 5 straight shrubs (this could be accomplished by adding single squares to the extreme edges of the furgon's attack range (5 in front of the furgie, etc) and if you want a wall just click on one of those solo squares)I maintain my previous position. As to LondonJack, I agree with (1). I see some difficulties with (2).

[LondonJack]

The main point i was trying to make Lord is that not all units need secondary abilities. Units such as the knight, scout, cleric, Lward, witch, frostie, stone and dragon are all staple units of many formations. Giving extra abilities to these units defeats the purpose of secondary abilities all together. The reason the mud got a second attack is because it was a weak unit that no one used, now it is a unit that people are using more and more. That is what i see as the purpose of secondary abilities, to make all units viable choices for a formation. Giving new abilities to units that are already widely used would just perpetuate their dominance within formations.

A few responces to your points:

Knights: does it really matter how much damage a knight does if your opponent can't kill it? Well done knight rushes are tough to deal with now, stoned are even worse, this ability would make knights almost unstoppable.

Witch: she has the highest power of a single unit space unit, not to mention she's unblockable. This secondary ability you're suggesting wouldn't just allow her to one hit a pyro, it would allow her to one hit two pyros or two witches. This attack would leave a scout crippled (damaged to the point that a scout or assassin could finish him off next turn, where as now they would leave him with one health). This is something a dragon can do to one scout now, this ability would allow a witch to possibly do it to two scouts at once. More power for a witch is just a bad idea mate, it's something that shouldn't happen.

Pyro: honestly Dragonspeak is their "secondary ability", this is how pyros were improved in order to make them a more viable unit.

Assassin: The fact that that Mudquake happens as soon as you release the mouse is a programming choice. There is nothing that says the player couldn't just hold the mouse until the white square disappears, then select a target.

Beastrider: I think our ideas are compatable here, a new attack wouldn't hurt this unit either.

As to the rest of your ideas, honestly they aren't bad ideas, but the units your suggesting them for just don't need more added to them. This even holds true for the enchantress. While that unit might be weak and easy to kill alot of times, her ability to paralyze up to 12 units is still one of the most potent in the game.

[Siquo]

Originally posted by Lord Wevilspore

Barrier Ward:Everything is clear except: Attacking the barrier would damage it and end the shield early? The wide area Barrier spell is not a bad idea.

My suggestions:

1) Make it last until the Barrier Ward recovers.
2) Units inside the area can leave the Protected Area but cannot reenter once they have left.
3) Units inside cannot perform acts outside the Barrier, including Area of Effect "splash."
4) Area is similar to the Enchantresses Area of Effect, as opposed to just a 3X3 square.
5) All units are affected as if under Barrier, so a Cleric's heal will only affect units outside the area, even if the Cleric in question is inside the area.
6) This ability, unlike it's Focus action, should defeat Focus spells.
[/B]

Then I put my cleric inside, and whenever the barrier disappears, I make a new barrier. I can never lose again, because you cant break the barrier's concentration, nor can you hurt the cleric.

Bad.

[LondonJack]

That was my initial reaction as well Siquo, but if you think about it the barrier ward would actually recover at the end of the second turn after it was used. This means the shield would drop, then your opponent would have one turn to act before it could be raised again. Personally i think that is too long for a shield like this to last but it doesn't mean someone would be unbeatable.

Edit: now that i think on it a little more, some of your barrier ideas do need a responce.

-If the AOE was the same as an enchantress that would mean an enchantress couldn't paralyze the ward from outside the shield.
-If the barrier effected focus effects (which it shouldn't anyways) that would mean that a frostie couldn't paralyze a ward or a unit hiding in the ward.
-With your duration two wards could create a permanate shield around an area. (mine isn't much better since it can do the same with 3 wards, but at least with it could be countered with paralyzers and would take a larger chunk out of someone's army)

These are all bad ideas simply because they create a shield that can't be countered at all, making someone unbeatable doesn't add to the tactics of a game.

The more i think about it the more i think this ability should have the same restriction as the mudquake, namely that it only works if you control no more then one barrier. (this restriction is true on legends, since people were using armies of 10 muds when the quake was first introduced). This of course would remove most of my objections to your idea about the barrier shield, but honestly i still think it's too powerful the way you've suggested it Lord W.

[royalfire]

having an offensive stone golem, modified normal or otherwise, would be cool. I see a possible problem with several stones, surrounding a cleric, and switching them from attack to defence, making yor guys basically impossible to kill, as you could switch all your stones to attack, and then heal everything all the way with the cleric.

LW: mabye really weak attack in all directions that a DMW could hit? mabye power 7