What will be the next formation fad?

[Aro23r]

What will be next formation fad / craze? To assist you, here is a history of such fads.

1. Witch burn (Witch up front to take out cleric first turn. Made obsolete by use of Lightening Ward and moving the cleric around.)

2. Turtle (Still around. With the addition of the Stone Golem, turtles made quite an impact. Just staying back and letting the enemy come to you. Still used, but fading slowly due to number 4 on this list.)

3. Furgon Maniacs (Begin making massive forests with the Furgon right off the bat and hope your opponent will quit because of the time it'll take to play the game, or they make mistakes and get lost in the forest. Made obsolete by number 4 and increased knowledge of Scout LOS.)

4. Mage Bombs (Dragon and DSM with pyros and other assorted units right out front to rush the opponent with strong attack power and many units. Still very popular and has made numbers 2 and 3 obsolete.)

What will be next??


My prediction for the future: With the Frost Golem being dropped on Revelation, I think the new tactic will be an increased use of paralyzers (i.e. Enchantress and Frost Golem with Barrier Wards)
This shall now be named Paralyze Win formations

OR

Golem Armies Like QuickSandSlowly has somewhere else, I think people will begin hording Golems and have armies of stone golems, frost golems, and mud golems only.

[Snarr]

Made obsolete?
I'll show you obsolete!!
I'll.. obselete you... Whatever that means!

[Aro23r]

Smarr would not be pleased with you, snarr.

ob·so·lete adj - No longer in use.

[Snarr]

Give me a break I got 2 out of 3 right for some wierd wierd reason...

Anyway back on topic.
If they drop frosties like they do now, I think we will start seeing that. I hope however that they don't drop frosties though it will for it will cause unbalance. :(

[QuicksandSlowly]

Golem Armies are hard to use when your opponent has double Scouts.. :(

They're much more effective if Golds get only one Scout.

[Aro23r]

Yea, I guess the Frost Golem loses its effectiveness if there are two scouts. You're always going to have that other one just coming around to scout you out.

[Snarr]

As it is I use my frost golem in a deadly manner, imagine having two of them, meaning that you need a minium of 3 units to merely approach my complex.

While I could go with 2 units alone or if you odnt have a frostie then with 1 even. This buys me valuable time to put me on the offense.

Originally posted by Aro23r
Yea, I guess the Frost Golem loses its effectiveness if there are two scouts. You're always going to have that other one just coming around to scout you out.

He most ceratinly does not, I often fight peple with 2 scouts and a muddy and my FG still does his job more then very well.

[Omega_Paladin]

Anyone with a good knowledge of Scout LOS turns a Frostie into just a taker of space. *Visions of battles with Ahab and Vinny* AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH! IT BURNS!!!!!!!

[QuicksandSlowly]

I'll admit that double Frostys is fun, and can work really well. Especially with a Furgon. I like to turtle with two of them. Three doesn't work tho. >.<

When you have two, be careful not to skimp on offensive units. You need at least 4-5 of them. Otherwise you'll just get overrun by theirs, and attrition will come into play.

[Punishment Co.]

I say the next craze would be, all-out offensive formations. I haven't seen those bad boys in a long time.:)

[Siquo]

The Mage bomb is kind of all-out offensive.

Multiple frosties is nice, but still does not work well against mage bombs. Although, two frosties, barrier ward and furgon would be pretty annoying to play against...
Frosty #1 paralyses scout #1,
Scout #2 hits Frosty #1,
Frosty #2 paralyses scout #1 again,
Opponent does something useless,
Barrier Frosty#2, and scout #1 is down, the other should be easy afterwards.

Has anyone tried multiple mud golems' secondary attack versus mage bombs yet? Should be pretty effective, I reckon?


Edit: Shouldn't this be in the strategy section, Moderators?

[QuicksandSlowly]

Multiple earthquake attacks only worked for one crazy night. Now as soon as you have two Muddies on the field the fun stops. :(

[Siquo]

Oh yeah, forgot about that tweak (nerf). I'm not gold, bear with me :)

[Twelve]

Originally posted by Aro23r
What will be next formation fad / craze? To assist you, here is a history of such fads.

1. Witch burn (Witch up front to take out cleric first turn. Made obsolete by use of Lightening Ward and moving the cleric around.)

2. Turtle (Still around. With the addition of the Stone Golem, turtles made quite an impact. Just staying back and letting the enemy come to you. Still used, but fading slowly due to number 4 on this list.)

3. Furgon Maniacs (Begin making massive forests with the Furgon right off the bat and hope your opponent will quit because of the time it'll take to play the game, or they make mistakes and get lost in the forest. Made obsolete by number 4 and increased knowledge of Scout LOS.)

4. Mage Bombs (Dragon and DSM with pyros and other assorted units right out front to rush the opponent with strong attack power and many units. Still very popular and has made numbers 2 and 3 obsolete.)

What will be next??


My prediction for the future: With the Frost Golem being dropped on Revelation, I think the new tactic will be an increased use of paralyzers (i.e. Enchantress and Frost Golem with Barrier Wards)
This shall now be named Paralyze Win formations

OR

Golem Armies Like QuickSandSlowly has somewhere else, I think people will begin hording Golems and have armies of stone golems, frost golems, and mud golems only.

Awesome, wise post. Really.

Once all the complainers start realizing that they have to adapt, the next fad will be the best SPREAD tactics, which, (NOT COINCEDENTALLY), is how real armies fight one another.


12

[xyxaxyz2]

I've never seen a good spread tactic. Spreads work better IRL than in TAO, when you can only move one unit a turn, because you're often left using half your army to fight your opponent's entire.

[Snarr]

Sometimes half of your army is more then you need... I have seen it happen sadly.

[xyxaxyz2]

Not when both players are good. I don't think a gold spread will ever be popular without the addition of a game-changing unit.

[Twelve]

Originally posted by xyxaxyz2
Not when both players are good. I don't think a gold spread will ever be popular without the addition of a game-changing unit.

I suppose I can only prove it to you in a fight, but I can assure you that a good offensive spread formation can whoop even the best. Even the best turtles.


12

[Siquo]

Originally posted by xyxaxyz2
I've never seen a good spread tactic. Spreads work better IRL than in TAO, when you can only move one unit a turn, because you're often left using half your army to fight your opponent's entire.
Which is not true. My spread has most units centered, and only a few on the sides. I hardly play without using every single one of them.
Great advantage against "side-centered" opponents, you can surround them and attack from the side. Disadvantage is that it takes a little while to get there, but I usually use my first few turns to get into a good position anyhow. It's a great all-round tactic, and in my opinion it is therefore a very valid tactic. With a mage-bomb you rely too much on your opponent's setup to be able to win.

[xyxaxyz2]

I'll play any of you spreaders; I like innovative formations.

[Aro23r]

Big X of Banff has a good set up that I've never seen before. I won't give details in case he wants to keep it secret, but it is sort of like a spread, but not really.

Play him and you'll see. It beat me :(

[Office_Shredder]

What people need to do to make spread tactics work is to use all units that can cover long distances (i.e. scouts) because of their range and movement.

[LondonJack]

I'm thinking cleric bombs will be the next big thing, i used to call them cleric rushes but i prefer Link9's name.

An example of the explosive clerical goodness (fear the tripod) (http://doa2400.tripod.com/friendlysetup/id1.html)

[QuicksandSlowly]

London, that's a joke form.. I hope.. You don't really play with it do you? :confused:

[Cavour]

What thread is this? I just wasted quite a bit of time staring at Quicks avatar...

...

anyway... I think the next setup fad will depend on the next unit made... as long as its a GOOD unit... or at least unique...

[LondonJack]

That setup is 3 for 3 against golds so far Quick, of course once enough people learn about the cleric's secondary ability it won't be as effective.

[wbwgr]

oh no...he uses it....it confuses people so much that they end up attacking their own guys.....it worked vs. me....>< lol

EDIT: wow this was late....stupid thing wouldn't scroll down...didn't think any1 else had posted....lol

[Xaos]

I'd like to mention that turtle formations have hardly been made obsolete, still over 50% of gold members use the formation over mage bomb or any other. I would also like to see other offensive formations that don't implement magic attacks only, I've been working on one but have yet to find one that wins consistently against turtle.

[noidea]

Originally posted by LondonJack
I'm thinking cleric bombs will be the next big thing, i used to call them cleric rushes but i prefer Link9's name.

An example of the explosive clerical goodness (fear the tripod) (http://doa2400.tripod.com/friendlysetup/id1.html)

that was like a drug, i couldn´t stop laughing in 5 min.

[Aro23r]

It looks as though spread / all-out offensive set ups have become the newest craze.

[Lord Achilles]

Because they're so easy to use.

I personally play the game for fun, so I do not like spreads. Their are very little tactics behind the use of spreads, rushes, bombs, ect...

They win by merely outnumbering your opponent. They're more for people who want to get on the rankings, and want points. They want a quick game.

I on the other hand love a long, strategical game, full of flanks, fortifications, everything. Spreads just aren't fun.

[-God-]

I think spreads might work because of their deceptive and flexible nature. At first they seem to leave your units all out in the open, but you can then rearrange them to counteract whatever setup the other player has. The only problem is finding time to re-setup, which will be more of a problem against other offensive setups than turtles, but if you nail that, you've got the other guy beat.

Edit: strategical isn't a word Ach.

[Itzphill]

4. Mage Bombs (Dragon and DSM with pyros and other assorted units right out front to rush the opponent with strong attack power and many units. Still very popular and has made numbers 2 and 3 obsolete.)

aro posted that and i agree but disagree.

mage bombs own turtles but its a totally different type of play. if u want to play TAO how it was meant to be played u turtle. if u wanna have the best stats with the least skill u bomb. thats all there is to it. i think the next fad will be a rush but not a bomb. i turtle and will have a hard time adjusting to it if it actually does become very popular. a few people rush but the numbers are no where near rushers and bombers...

[Itzphill]

Originally posted by Lord Achilles
Because they're so easy to use.

I personally play the game for fun, so I do not like spreads. Their are very little tactics behind the use of spreads, rushes, bombs, ect...

They win by merely outnumbering your opponent. They're more for people who want to get on the rankings, and want points. They want a quick game.

I on the other hand love a long, strategical game, full of flanks, fortifications, everything. Spreads just aren't fun.

hmmmmmm, i was gonna say the exact thing.

[Draquist]

Darque here.

I challenge anyone who believes the Turtle was made obsolete by the Mage Bomb. Bombs arent nearly as effective if they cant get your cleric in the early turns. Yes..it has caused turtles to adapt to this formation, but thats what TAO is about..staying ontop've the current formations to make sure you have the best shot at winning.

Bombs are not to be confused with Rushes..Rushes on the other hand take alot more adapting and doing so really lowers your chances of beating other turtles. It turns TAO into a rock-paper-scissors game for the most part...except that on occassion paper smothers scissors due to skill, or even just luck.

[Lord Achilles]

Originally posted by -God-

Edit: strategical isn't a word Ach.

Really? (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Strategical)

[Baeoin]

i just laughed when i read the furgon/turtle made obsolete by bombs. I've beaten many a good bombs and rushes with the use of a good turtle/furgon, though rushes are a force to be reckoned with.

[Twelve]

I wouldn't say turtles are obsolete, but you have to be quite skillful to win with a turtle against even a mediocre offensive formation.


12

[Draquist]

Darque again.

Rushes are still difficult..even when I adjust to them. But bombs just arent fair, my turtls vs bombs loses 1 piece maybe.. usually..its just a matter of how you position your pieces. There are exceptions better players have better variations..such as following in with knights n such..but then that turns it more into a rush and not a bomb.

So far in this tourny thats all we've faced..and all we've used is turtles so far.

I hate to put down bombs, since I used it when nobody was ready for it..along with Twelve, Pyro_guy4, and a few others..but then..noone was ready for it, now this and rushes are what TAO seem to be evolveing into. A very very spread bomb pushed me to 1550+ at one time.

[DKR]

Originally posted by Itzphill
if u want to play TAO how it was meant to be played u turtle. if u wanna have the best stats with the least skill u bomb. thats all there is to it.

Well THAT is the most stupid reply ever.

TAO wasn't MEANT to be played in a defence formation against another defensive formation, it was made as an adaption of chess with another element of tactical and strategical thinking placed into it.

The ability to create formations adding to that and therefore the TAO formation idea was made so that you can have a sense of unpredictability about it and a wide range of personal and original formations to best against the enemy.

Turtles just happen to be popular with the majority of starting up golds and old gold players because they are easy to set up and there is a bigger element of luck behind it, therefore creating a higher chance of survival.

Bombs removed most of that luck element and therefore were disliked because of this. Not because they made a game 'less fun' and 'easy' they just greatly (at least - maybe not now) reduced your chance of lucky blocks and therefore towards a more positive win in your view.

TAO isn't about turtles, it isn't about bombs or spreads or rushes or cleric runs etc. etc. blahhh di blah, its about beating your opponent in battle with tactical thinking and skill.

No matter which way you argue it, setting up any formation requires some thinking and therefore some tactical thought, playing in battle then requires another added point of thinking and skill to move and kill/hurt the right units.

You can argue one formation has a better look upon things than others, one is more 'tactically' better than others but the truth is they are all equal no matter what you say because they all required the same amount of thought, all require the same about of skill (and yes they damn well do) and all require some luck, admittedly upon this more than others, a reason why I don't like this game.

Don't argue about formations because until you can see that every formation is balanced in some way and weakened in another, your word is invalid.

Twelve seems to be the only one I've ever see who can understand that.

[DKR]

I wrote too much to have it just ignored under piles of other crap!

Bump me a chocolate biscuit

[Twelve]

Originally posted by Draquist

I hate to put down bombs, since I used it when nobody was ready for it..along with Twelve, Pyro_guy4, and a few others..but then..noone was ready for it

Word...those were the days, weren't they, Darque? :) Caught all kinds of people by surprise. Still, I would like to see how your turtle would hold up to a certain bomb that I call "12's Rush". First move or second move, I've never seen a turtle capable of stopping it. Because I don't want people to LEARN to stop it, I don't use it much anymore...only if it comes up on random. But back in the day when I first started using it, it was so powerful that I was accused of cheating.


12

[Walrus]

ive been doing paralyse-wins for quite a while, the main problem is against mage bombs, where pyros and witches (with an effective range of 7 each) can easily break the chanties focus. Other than the knights, the opponent does often have enough melee to make it worth using a 2nd chanty.

I predict the next generation of forms will be my (well not exactly mine, but one i use a lot) spread out offensives. a basic knight wall and LW to protect the cleric, but focuses in balancing your power over the entire field. its perfect for finding and exploiting the opponents weaknesses. people say it doesnt work coz the enemy can overpower you on one side, but thats where you are wrong. with effective use and position of key units like knights and scout, you can ensure effective coverage of the whole arena.
works well against turtles, whichever corner of the board they dont use, you quickly claim, meaning you effectively control 3/4 of the board, and have a wide front to attack their turtle from, and they have nowhere to run but backwards.

[DKR]

I've been using offensive spread formations since I was a grey back in November. In fact my ultimate grey formation could take almost everything that was thrown at it.

My powers with it were unquestionnable against any grey :)

[Medemia]

Well, I believe DKR and I are really marching to our own beat here, but as far as I know, we are the only two who actually still use an enchantress with our gold setup. She is just too powerful, although she has a much harder time surviving in a 2 archer world and even harder time with a bomb/all ranged teams.

The next fad? At this point, without new units, the possibilities, once thought to be endless, are beginning to dry up. There are different formations, such as a the freezer, which are used here and there, but they are not going to be popular because there are too many counters to them. There are not many counters to formations such as Bottle's Furgon Turtle and Bottle's Super Mage Bomb from Hell. That's why they are popular.

What gets me though is phill's "That's how TAO is meant to be played" comment. I agree with DKR here; it's not. TAO is meant to be played with whatever strategy you believe is going to beat your opponent. If you believe your turtle is going to beat his bomb or rush, then it's all good. If you hope and pray that your opponent doesn't have the default setup because you can't beat that, then you really should adapt and get some confidence.

[Walrus]

anyone who says that TAO should be played in a certain way (excluding crap like stalling) should be turned into a fox and shot, after being told thats what he was meant to be there for.

[roamingstorm]

aro i think you should edit that first post to have a rush formation

[Twelve]

Originally posted by Medemia
Well, I believe DKR and I are really marching to our own beat here, but as far as I know, we are the only two who actually still use an enchantress with our gold setup. She is just too powerful, although she has a much harder time surviving in a 2 archer world and even harder time with a bomb/all ranged teams.

Ahhh...you may have forgotten my "Paralyzed Attrition" formation, eh? It's posted in the 'jak forums. :)


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[ICevil]

Originally posted by QuicksandSlowly
Multiple earthquake attacks only worked for one crazy night. Now as soon as you have two Muddies on the field the fun stops. :(

holy shit there was a time multiple muddquake actually works?
damn...when the muddquake came out...i only had 1 mudd...2 bad u guys dont got mudd drops here :P


anyways, dunno if its been said, but the next formation fad is definitely the "rush" formation its a combination between witch bombs/mage bomb and melee units, all units are put on frontline ready 2 attack(except cleric on back line if u use 1)...and almost unbeatable if played by a skilled player...

and u 4got 2 mention the flanking formation...its a old formation...i dont need 2 mention it

[-God-]

Originally posted by Lord Achilles
Really? (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Strategical)

Yes. (http://www.freewebs.com/thauruin/news.htm)

[Swift]

That is funny. However, Dictionary.com is always the most reliable. More reliable even than freewebs there. Infact It's even more reliable than webster!!

long live dictionary.com:D