You have no witch, enemy has no cleric?

[Shadoww3]

Want to know what people think, and which people value more if it lasted the course of the game.

[jaydude6]

personally if it's a newb thats how my game is.
i sacrifice my witch to get rid of their cleric

[DD04]

i agree. i usually start my witch in front of my lightning ward hoping that i can reach the cleric in the first try. sometimes it backfires and you have to figure something out, but a better part of the time it works well for me.

[Aro23r]

No good player should ever do that. It relies too much on chance. If a person has any unit four spaces in front of their cleric their safe. Clerics shouldn't be targeted just because their clerics. Kill them when you can without losing any pieces... ;-)

[bizrampump]

i dont mind clerics too much

[Shadoww3]

I'm surprised at the results so far

[AzN_GuY]

I use my witch for damage but it's true that she sometimes is just there to draw fire... Either way though, it's rare that I get a cleric kill with mine.

[teh_Sheep]

I love my Witch, and wouldn't give her up for anything. Anyways, I don't really mind Clerics.

[ario]

a variation on that lemon thingy:::

if life throws u a lemon, make lemonade. then, chase life down, takle it, pin it, pour the lemonade in its eyes n say,"YEA! HOW DO LIKE ME NOW U LEMON THROWIN BITCH!!!!"

hehe my little addition.

[xyxaxyz2]

Very surprised at results. A cleric is MUCH more valuable than a witch. It isn't close. A cleric is better than any two single units in the game.

I challenge anyone who voted "no" to a game just like this, a 9 unit game where I start without a witch and they without a cleric.

And I'd do any other single unit too. I'd even throw in my pyro, just to prove my point.

[teh_Sheep]

I *would* accept that game, but I know I'd get raped no matter what units I had. I'm just not good enough. My wins and losses are like, even, and lately I've been losing more than I've been winning.

[xyxaxyz2]

Tell me what you want me to take out to make it even and then we can play. But you can't have a cleric, and I do.

What I have now:

1 witch
1 enchantress
3 knights
1 assassin
1 cleric
1 lightning ward
1 scout
1 pyro

[Shadoww3]

Also, when I made this poll I meant that you can't have another witch on the battlefield- your choices were limited to the starting units, so you can't justify it by saying "that's ok, I have another witch to use"

[xyxaxyz2]

I don't, I use starting units.

[Shadoww3]

I'm talking in general

[AzN_GuY]

I thought the question was driving at "is there no point to the witch other than cleric killing"?

I use the hell out of my cleric, i wouldnt start without it.

[xyxaxyz2]

Did you vote wrongly?

[AzN_GuY]

i voted no to mean: "I use my witch for more than cleric killing"

I'd love to play someone who has no cleric but i have no witch. Easy.

[xyxaxyz2]

Seems it is I who voted incorrectly.

[Haelix]

I don't use my witch for cleric killing, and yes, the Cleric is much more valuable than the Witch.

[xyxaxyz2]

The question was:
In general, would you start without a witch if the opponent started without a cleric?

I didn't vote incorrectly. I voted YES, I WOULD start with witch if my opponent stated without a cleric.

Anyone who voted NO and believes a cleric is more valuable than a witch voted incorrectly.

[AzN_GuY]

Incorrectness admitted. I read into it. *hits head on floor repeatedly*


*edit*
The early responses threw me off... esp. jay's

[Dragonslayers]

Against an experienced player clerics are nowhere near as good as witches.

If he has a cleric and you don't your strategy is very simple. You focus lots of damage against a single low-HP no-armor unit, then move on to the next, etc. In such a situation a Cleric is worse than useless; a heal would actually lose tempo [because your target is unarmored, so the Heal doesn't get any extra bonus in Real-HP].

Of course, the opponent is going to do his best to block the strategy but you can afford to lose a unit - he's already starting one down.

[xyxaxyz2]

Dragonslayer- want to play that situation? I'm sure you're an experienced player. Lets see who wins.

[skribe311]

A cleric is not all that powerful. It heals once in a while, its a beutiful thing, but its not worth SACRAFICING your witch. Sure, if you can take it out on the first turn, then be my guest. But the witch is by far one of the most powerful units in the game, if used correctly. She can come in handy early on when theres still a lot of units on the field. If you really want to kill the cleric, move your scout into position shoot the bastard, wait a turn, and shoot it again. Usually if you get the opponents cleric in check, he gets scared and moves it anyway, which means he has to wait 5 turns to use it again (which brings up another poinr. NEVER move your cleric, unless your desperate. By not moving it, you only have to wait 3 turns to use it again rather than 5).

Well, theres my input :D

[Dragonslayers]

You'll win easily now that you know my strategy ;)

Let's say you're confining yourself to basic units for instance [I'm not gold...]. So you already are down a Witch. You want to toss out the units I'll prey on, so get rid of either an Enchantress or a Pyro and you're set with 9 units. [Pyro's a better choice, I think - fewer HP, even if you do lose the damage capability].

Then you'll come up with a formation designed to beat my strategy ;) For example, spellcasters clumped in the front, a Knight-wall protecting the Cleric and Barrier Ward in the back from Scout potshots.

Normally multiple damage is bad, but in this game you'd WANT me to give many units damage because then it makes Heal economical. You'd aim to wear me down with spellcasters until the advantage is enough that my meager initial lead doesn't matter. If I ever managed to get a unit alone and start really swinging at it, you'd cast a Barrier on it. Then I have to focus on another unit. When it starts getting damaged, lift the barrier and Heal both together.

Of course when both players know what's coming, the cleric player has the advantage. Would most people normally put Knights at the back, clumped spellcasters in front, and play with a Barrier Ward? Not many that I've met use those tactics. If we "happened to play" and the server accidentally vaporized my cleric and your witch, I think I'd have a good chance at winning :p

But I interpreted the question to mean: "Is it worth it to sacrifice a Witch to take out a Cleric?" My answer [hell no!] still stands. If you're so rabid about taking out the Cleric, there are better ways that don't usually involve a sacrifice unless your opponent is really good ;)

Clerics ARE a great unit - I just don't think a hasty, game-start Witch sacrifice is worth it. Especially since every time I set up such a strategy I get zapped by Wards ;)

[xyxaxyz2]

It is worth sacrificing your witch.

[xyxaxyz2]

IRT Dragonslayer:

But if the sacrifice is succesful-forgetting zapping for a moment- the game is much easier. The cleric is a better unit than a witch. It even makes the witch weaker. The ability to heal all your units every three turns is very powerful, much more so than any single unit. Having a cleric advantage allows you to play a defensive strategy and take your enemy down slowly.

[Shadoww3]

Good points everyone.

Just a side note- if you move a cleric without healing, he only has 2 turn recovery. Moving with no action reduces 2/3 of the turn recovery, action with no moving reduces 1/3 of the turn recovery. This applies to every unit(using standard rounding), except that attacking and not moving with a knight or assassin still requires 1 turn recovery.

[Hammy]

One thing you guys are forgetting with sacrificing a witch for a cleric.

there are ussually 2 or 3 people standing in front of the guy. you can do unhealable damage to other units as well as taking out the cleric. Well worth it.

[xyxaxyz2]

That only happens if you're playing a newb.

[AzN_GuY]

yea, good players keep someone far enough up front to avoid that.

[Aro23r]

In my opinion, keep all units and only kill units that MUST be sacrificed. Cleric healing powers can be countered by just hitting one unit. Kill that unit and move on. Their cleric will become less of an issue then.

[Drazil]

Originally posted by Aro23r
In my opinion, keep all units and only kill units that MUST be sacrificed. Cleric healing powers can be countered by just hitting one unit. Kill that unit and move on. Their cleric will become less of an issue then. Yes, certain strategies can nullify the cleric advantage, however that only means that your strategies when playing that way are severely limited. You have to concentrate all your attacks on one unit at a time, while the enemy is free to take pot shots here and there and gradually wear you down. Your options are limited, his are not.

The thing is, while the witch has an excellent long-range attack, there's plenty of other units with reasonably good long-range attacks that can fill many of her roles. On the other hand, no one else can do what a cleric can do.

And, of course, a cleric well-trained in gunkata will pwn all.

[jaydude6]

A little thing to back up my earlier post.
(from the mouth of someone that has learned to not need a witch)- You guys seem to not realise something. with a cleric you can throw your guys in, get them near the end of death, have them retreat and heal up to the point that they're as good as new.
without a cleric you can't heal your units. A sacrific unit or 2 from the other side (that's fast) can murder your forces. with the right stradegy your dead in a very short amount of time.
and look at the witch. she has such a long recovery time. i admit, it is close to the clerics, but all it does is attack individual units. the cleric technically attacks whole armies.

__________________________________________________
KOTR RULES!

[Choi]

No question in my mind that the Cleric is a more imporant unit than the witch.

[Killer_kev]

i definaily would rather have a cleric then a witch, and i would traid my witch for a second cleric

[xyxaxyz2]

No is finally in the majority.

[jaydude6]

the majority is crazy
just like how they want blocking out of the game... they fail to see the real picture and continue on how they go about they're playing.
no offense to the majority but you have got to be kidding me about both.

[Cuathon]

if my witch cant kill their cleric my dragon usually will
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this is the easiest way to counter my strategy with the cleric still in the middle

[xyxaxyz2]

I meant, yes, the correct choice, is finally in the majority.

[Sodevilish]

You want the down right skippy... A NON-gold member that sacrafices a witch to kill a cleric on another NON-gold member will most likely win... But if a non gole member sacrafices their witch to killa gold members cleric they are as good as dead.. because a Stone golem will give probably a couple knights and a dragon a +30 armor buff ... So the non gold member will still lose against a gold member if the goldie knows what he is doing...

BUT! a gold vs. gold match
If a gold even uses a witch and can kill the cleric... The one who loses the cleric will most likely lose... But then again... If that guy who had the witch probably doesnt have a very good set up if hes gold because most golds dont waste their time with witches... and if they do Almost all golds wont sacrafice their witch...

Thats the nitty gritty... Bite it chew it eat it and shut up..

[kyrios24]

Clerics are a long shot more powerful than witches. Especially now with the dragons out, witches can die in 1 hit just like clerics. But the 2-cleric thing is a bit questionable. I agree that having 2 of them can come in handy in a tight situation, but in general it wastes a fair amount of time if you do use them, and it's a unit lost if you don't. Besides, like someone posted on a different thread, a dragon could go in there and take out both. Even if it dies it's still 2 units for 2 units. And the clerics are a really important 2 units.

I had 2 witches and 2 clerics on one account and the original units on another. My record on the second account was literally about 6 times better than the first. 2 clerics are damn intimidating, though...

Last thing - if your opponent doesn't have his cleric properly protected from a witch's attack, you should probably be able to beat him (or her) no matter what happens. Being positioned for a suicide run with the witch is generally not a good idea.