The "mage bomber" name calling...

[radmobile]

If I use two pyros (one being a DSM), don't place them up front, and don't use them on the priest... am I still a "mage bomber"?

If I use four witches, don't place them up front, and don't use them on the priest... am I still a "mage bomber"?

When you call someone a "mage bomber" is it because they have a lot of magic users, because they take "cheap shots", or because they're beating you?

[Catra]

I would like to know this too...

BTW, good job with the many witches! I wish I had that! :p

[bludhoundz]

I understand you radmobile, but generally moving those units up to the front of the board is better, and although i do not bomb myself, if it is part of the game accept it (directed to bomb haters). It is a fair strategy, fine it can beat turtles so some complain, but it has weaknesses also, and if you like turtles, make a new one to beat it (my turtle is 75% effective against normal bombs 2 pyros and 1 dsm;against heavier mage bombs it does not do so well).

[bludhoundz]

let the flaming begin! *backs out*

[Bottle]

A mage bomber is someone who uses pumped-up pyros as suicide units on the first few turns. To do this, they have to be on the front ranks. Any pyros near the back is not a mage bomb (and is also stupid, because ranged units will pick them off).

[wavemaster2]

lol blud,i agrea with u blud but have some to add i dont like mage bombers because most true mage bombs do not require alot of skill all u do is kill the cleric and then every thing else i mean isnt the game called tactics arena not suicide arena?

[radmobile]

Now I can feel better when I tell those whiners to shove it.

[Omegus]

So many people rant on mage bombs cause they think they are cheap and require no strategy...but thtas just because they dont know how to deal with them...

[wavemaster2]

uh omeg they dont require strategy all u do is burn every thing in sight

[The Rooster]

uh omeg they dont require strategy all u do is burn every thing in sight

yeah turtles don't require strategy, all they do is hide and heal....and knight rushes don't require strategy all you do is attack whatever you run into.....and freeze formations don't require strategy all you do is paralyze everything you can......

That IS the strategy. Don't believe me? Make a bomb, and play someone decently rated (+900) and just burn whatever is there with little to no discrimination. See if you win. If someone wants to sacrifice a unit to gain the advantage, that's their problem. I play bombers and own, without a turtle. Let them suicide, then I frosty/enchantress their "tough" units and wow, game over!

If your strategy can't handle mage bombers, guess what....your strategy is flawed. my strategy struggles against turtles. So be it. I don't like turtles, but I don't think they're cheap or unthinking, they're just another strat to be dealt with.

[bludhoundz]

Ok, if it exists on tactics arena all the formation has to do is have tactics : blocking is a tactic (a hated one), attacking is, moving is etc.... or in bottle's case, blocking out LOS. so wave, although i don't like bombs much myself because i can't deal with particularly lucky bombers or with heavy bombs like 4 witches and 2 pyros + dsm and dragon. Rushes are tactical, you have to know what to attack, where to move, etc..... or in Office_shredder's case, how many units you can kill in two turns.
Turtles are tactical, i don't particularly like the scout war, but it can be avoided, using scouts correctly is a tactic, mud golems and dragons also..... but the frosty, well hes in a league of his own.


SO YOU TELL THEM RADMOBILE, IF THEY SAY THAT YOUR FORMATION IS A BOMB AND THAT YOU USE NO STRATEGY, just calmly tell them that they are an idiot, it is not a bomb, and bombs use tactics (tactics arena again, not strategy arena).

[Catra]

All I have to say ~ "Go blud!!"

[Office_Shredder]

For all those who say that mage bombing is just cheap:
A.) if it's cheap because it's overpowered, wouldn't it be in your best interest to use it because it's clearly a better tactical setup?
B.) If it's cheap because it requires no skill, then why doesn't your setup that gets better when controlled by a better play lose to it?
C.) If it's cheap because it's blocking based, then you can STFU because, guess what? You're the guy using units that can be blocked, so you're the one who's initiating the luck.
D.) If it's cheap because it needs the first turn to win... doesn't that mean you ALSO need the first turn to win?
E.) If it's cheap because you suck, then just say you suck and we'll all type /ignore n00b

[wavemaster2]

i wasnt trying to start ne thing i was just sayin what i think about bombs if u dont like that fact i dont think they require alot of skill deal with it

[kyrios24]

Originally posted by Office_Shredder
For all those who say that mage bombing is just cheap:
A.) if it's cheap because it's overpowered, wouldn't it be in your best interest to use it because it's clearly a better tactical setup?
B.) If it's cheap because it requires no skill, then why doesn't your setup that gets better when controlled by a better play lose to it?
C.) If it's cheap because it's blocking based, then you can STFU because, guess what? You're the guy using units that can be blocked, so you're the one who's initiating the luck.
D.) If it's cheap because it needs the first turn to win... doesn't that mean you ALSO need the first turn to win?
E.) If it's cheap because you suck, then just say you suck and we'll all type /ignore n00b
Office... that really wasn't rational. One by one here. (oh, and it's A. or A), not both.)

A.)<--:D It isn't overpowered. That one is fine.
B.) Wrong. "Requires no skill" doesn't mean that all players are equally good at it. It means that the necessary skill level for playing a mage bomb and winning with it is much lower than that of, say, a turtle. A good mage bomber is better than a bad mage bomber, but a bad mage bomber can still do reasonably well. Which shouldn't happen.
C.) It's not blocking based... but it is infuriating when those pyros aren't falling (or those witches, in my case - I have huge trouble with witch blocks). And what the hell are you talking about? Are you suggesting everyone should use a mage bomb, or just spewing forth random gibberish? I don't really know exactly what to say to that, other than: that may have been the least sensible thing I've ever seen from you, given that it was probably meant to be sensible.
D.) Logic here. The first does not imply the second. Just because they need the first turn to win doesn't mean that they automatically win when they do have it. Now, if that were the case, then yes, your argument would make sense. Although I disagree with the first statement as well. They don't need the first turn to win, although their odds do improve enormously with it.
E.) Amen.

[Office_Shredder]

kyrios, what I meant for C was that the only reason those guys are blocking is because YOU are the player who is using blockable units. In fact, some people like mage bombs for the simple fact that they can KNOW that they will not be blocked.

I worded D wrong... I should have said: "If it's cheap because it wins if and only if it wins when it goes first," since it can't actually be cheap if it loses when it goes second, and sometimes wins when it goes first :)

With your reference to B, as the skill of the turtle and mage bomb player go up, the turtler should be winning more and more often according to the logic behind the "it doesn't need skill" argument, because if it doesn't need skill to win, it won't get much better (some, but not an extreme amount) as the player gets better. If it does get better at a linear rate as the skill increases, like the turtle supposedly does, then it DOES need skill to win. Therefore, the fact that it doesn't need as much skill to master just means that it only works well for players who are bad, and admitting they can't win in a turtle vs. turtle match, and therefore must take gambles to win, which, while not very in-game strategically oriented, is a sound tactic.

[FryLock]

We need to realize here that turtling and mage bombing both require different kinds of skills. MB is more for the offensive-minded player while turtles are more for the defensive (generalization, I know, but usually true). There is a difference between an unskilled magebomb and a skillful one. Stacking 5 pyros on the front line is not too skillful. I've seen a lot of people with that just get smoked because they can't figure out how to spread their forces out. A bad mage bomb is beatable even by a grey. A good mage bomb doesn't rely on overwhelming numbers of suicide troops. A good mage bomb may not even be a mage bomb at all. It takes skill to design a caster formation that does NOT crumble once the DSM dies and does NOT rely on the first turn to win. The thing with most mage bombs is that once you take out the DSM, they're generally easy pickings. It takes skill to design one that's not, since, as people have pointed out, a moderately skilled player can usually take apart a poorly constructed bomb.
I also recognize that turtles take skill, but just sitting back waiting for the enemy to come to you...huh. How fun. I thought this game was supposed to be exciting, not boring. I've had a few games where people would NOT leave the umbrella of their LW to attack and called ME a coward when I refused to march in one by one to be frozen and picked off. Hmm. A lot of strategy there. Of course, there are turtles that are very well balanced for both offense and defense. Now that's strategy. But if your plan is just to bunker up in the corner and hope the enemy strings himself out coming to you...get over yourselves.

[kyrios24]

Originally posted by FryLock
A good mage bomb may not even be a mage bomb at all.
Sorry, just had to do that. You make some good points, even though I tend to disagree with them. First, how about a formation where the DSM doesn't get killed? I think that would be pretty useful. Also, most turtles aren't designed for waiting. Actually, a turtle is 10 times better if the player brings out his units somewhat... after all, they are stoned. Yes, there are some people who do what you described. But you shouldn't complain about them - it shouldn't be too hard to pick them apart.

[FryLock]

Heh...yeah, I looked at that after I wrote it and thought it sounded odd...ah well. :cool: In any case, what I meant by it, and what it sounds like you picked up on is the fact that a good offensive caster formation is still effective after the casters are dead. I like your idea about keeping the DSM alive, but then you're in the situation of keeping the DSM and the dragon way in the back with 2 or 3 pumped up suicide pyros on the front lines. Ugh. When I use the DSM, I only use 1 other pyro with him (a total of 2 pyro pieces) and while they're offensive units, I try not to suicide them if it can be avoided. Sometimes I'm able to get 2 or even 3 attacks with each of them if I do it right. The enemy comes to cut down the spell guys, but they forget about the scouts and the muddy that can pick them off. So they're also useful as bait, even if they don't charge in to their death.

[Bottle]

Originally posted by FryLock
I also recognize that turtles take skill, but just sitting back waiting for the enemy to come to you...huh. How fun. I thought this game was supposed to be exciting, not boring. I've had a few games where people would NOT leave the umbrella of their LW to attack and called ME a coward when I refused to march in one by one to be frozen and picked off. Hmm. A lot of strategy there. Of course, there are turtles that are very well balanced for both offense and defense. Now that's strategy. But if your plan is just to bunker up in the corner and hope the enemy strings himself out coming to you...get over yourselves.

I think you'll find that turtlers who just bunker up will lose 90% of their games, whether it be to magebombers or other turtles. I personally use the turtle as a means of toughening my scouts and dragon so they can go on the offensive and last a heck of a lot longer than normal. When you have a wall of shrubs across the centre of the field, you HAVE to attack, and be adjacent to the wall with your dragon and scouts. That way, you can pick off enemies one at a time, rather than being picked off yourself.

When I see an all-out defensive turtle, I look forward to an easy battle. Because they are concentrating so much on defending and bringing the enemy to them, they forget that 2 scouts don't have to come to them to kill things. Another favourite tactic of mine against people who just fence themselves in a wall of shrubs is to freeze and snipe their LW... once it's dead, that usually makes them send their dragon on the offensive where it can be frozen... it's quite amusing to see them have no idea what to do when you don't blindly walk into their camp.

Yes, defensive turtles require little skill, just wait until the attack, freeze and kill. Offensive turtles require a lot of skill, especially when you only have 4 damage units; losing one of those units is devasting, and you must plan accordingly.

[Cuathon]

lol you forgot the "bombs need to be on the right side" complaint.
i can play bomb or turtle and kick serious ass. i beat a gold bomb with 9 units on a grey account. the guy had like a 1205 rating. once a bomber fights a good player tehy can get seriously fucked up. well bed time but see yall tommorow homies

[Catra]

Nothing really to do with the thread, except thanks for the extreme logic... my goodness... My head hurts!


To Cuathon

At the end of a battle only one person remains standing Me

Man, you have to get out into the lobby before you get jumped.

[Cuathon]

your post made absolutely no sense to me. what point did you want to get across?

what is wrong with my sig? its not like 13 year olds have to make any sense.