Soldier/melee class powerhouse

[Megabyte]

When you look at all the units in TAO, you see some trends in the strongest ones. The most powerful attacking ones, for example. First is the LW, then the Dragon Tyrant, next comes the DSM (powered up of course), after that the DMW. All of these are the unblockable styled attacks.

I think a melee styled one should be added in there.

Soldier:
Attackpower: 28
Def: 18
HP: 60
Blocking: 50% (front), 25% (sides)
Movement: 4 spaces
Recovery: 1 attack, 1 movement
Attack: Same style as that of the knight (i.e. 1 space away, 1 direction, blockable)
Counts as 2 units


Just like the idea of having a stronger melee character. There's already enough unblockable attacks out there. The knight is great, but he's more of a balanced def/atk styled unit. He's not too fast, not too strong, etc. This one would be more attack oriented.

[SpartanX]

good concept but a little overpowered but i like the idea.


those who fear the darkness have not seen what the light can do. selena, dark angel

[Megabyte]

Originally posted by SpartanX
good concept but a little overpowered but i like the idea.

could you be more specific in how it is? :)

[Astaroth]

it's okay but everyone is sick of high powered unit we hate them we hate them

[kensai]

While I accept the idea that there could be a unit with a very strong but blockable attack, I'm not entirely certain whether you consider this an attack of defend unit. He's strong enough to take out a Witch with one blow, sturdy enough to survive two lightning blasts, and fast enough to backstab or run across the board in three moves (from row 2, close enough to hit targets on row 1, runs to row 6, waits, then runs to row 10 to attack targets on the hostile back row). While the armour is not as heavy as that of the knights, this one has an extra 10 HP.

In other words... something very strong, without major weaknesses to speak of. Except for the "counts as two units", which is a rather major setback.

Of the various features of a unit, three are offense (movement speed, power, recovery) and three are defense (blocking, HP, armour) - non-applicable ones are not considered here.

Speed: 2- is low, 3 average, 4+ high
Power: 15- is low, 16-20 average, 21+ high
Recovery: 3+ is low, 2 is average, 1 is high
Blocking: 40% or less is low, 61% plus is high
HP: 30 or less is low, 45 or more is high
Armour: 10 or less is low, 21 or more is high.
Range: 1 is low, 2-3 is okay, 4+ is high.

Knight: average, high, high, high, high, high, low.
Assassin: average, high, high, average, average, low.
Scout: high, average, average, average, average, high.
Soldier: high, high, average, average, high, average, low.

That does not look too bad, actually. The combo of a high speed and high power is deadly, though.

It would be really nice to have a formula for comparing the strengths of units so that they would end up relatively equal. Something to work on someday.

[DuBious]

Wow Kensai, nice thinking. Small adjustment though, the assassin has high speed, not average. There are a few other mistakes too, seeing as you list 7 qualities, but say that there are only 6. (You left out range as an offensive quality methinks). You then also only listed 6 avg, high, etc. for a couple of the units after describing 7. Not to nitpick but I'm still scratching my head a bit. In all it's quite well thought out, and is a great thought.

As for megabyte. I don't know how well balanced the unit is, but I'm DEFINITELY glad that you took a stab at such an idea. Although I'm not likely to be around to enjoy it, another melee unit would be a great idea.

[Megabyte]

*rolls eyes at the "sick of strong units" remark*
last i checked, only the Dragon tyrant costed two units, so I think there's room for more. Who's this "everyone" anyhow? I'd like to meet him since he seems to influence u so easily.

Kensai has it down, its meant to be a general powerhouse. If I had to change anything, I'd perhaps lower the armor level a bit to 10 OR maybe lower the hp to 50 (that of the knight). I think the other stats are pretty suitable for the idea behind the unit.

I think there is some disregard to the units downsides (i.e. ppl are seeing the strngth and not the weaknesses). The key is that the only MAJOR weakness is the 2 unit thing. The side part is that everything else is a minor weakness. Its attack is really strong...but blockable. It can move 4 spaces at a time...but it needs a 1 turn recovery. It has 60 hp...but a pretty low armor and only mildly decent blocking. Kensai worked it out, in a fairly astute manner as well, and while it looks really impressive, remember it counts as two units, so it should have a bit higher setup than ur other melees.

Here's a side comparison using Kensai's above ones, since I though it should include the dragon, as its also a 2 unit one.
Soldier: high, high, average, average, high, average, low
Dragon Tyrant: high, high, low, low, high, average, average

The soldier would have the advantage versus the two of them, but you have to remember the Dragon's attack is unblockable. Thats a nice added bonus to have in there (i.e. surefire hit). This effect would become most noticable when fighting melee chars. You know your dragon will hit that knight/scout/assassing/beatrider, but there's a chance that the soldier's attack would be blocked. Experienced players know, the fewer chances the better, since so much of the game is luck as it is.

I made the unit with the idea of having a different powerhouse styled unit for use by gold players. EVERYONE uses the dragon tyrant. No one unit can compete against the dragon. Hoever...there are tactics that we all use to defeat the tyrant (using various hit and run/gang up attack ideas). The soldier here is meant to go with a similar concept.
Its a powerhouse unit, but its something that you'd likely have to change ur attack strategy on as compared to the dragon.

FYI, like that means of comparison btw. Its a nice system, a little tweaking and it'd work out real well.

[Black_mage]

ok i think thius unit is kind of dumb
its not original or imaginative
its basicly a powerhouse knight. something FUN not something we already have. theres no need for another unit that does insane amounts of damage. and also how annoying whould it be when this unit attack was blocked? its like "im gunna do so much damage!!!!!! oh, well the DMW blocked. oops"

[Megabyte]

nice....aside from the lack of imagination comment and restating the reasons why i made the unit (except twisting them around because u consider them bad things, whereas I like them), did u plan on contributing an actual idea?

*shrugs* the unit isn't made to be imaginative. Most of the units in the game are simple variations attack/movement/style wise from each other. Therefore future units to be made will likely follow a similar pattern. I'd rather come up with an actual workable and realistic addition to TAO than some off the wall idea which isn't even possible to program in.

[Longshooter]

I like it a bit. It is like the dragon but with a melee attack and no teleport.

[Duffman]

Argh... i typed out a whole thing about how i thing you should change it and then i read it again and i had read it wrong the recovery is 2... not 1... *sigh*

I don't think it's overpowered at all... it's not nearly as powerful as the dragon.

After kensai's way of determining if a unit is balanced or not i feel like making my own now... I'm off to do that... Megabyte the unit is balanced but i wouldn't like it in the game... too much of a nuisance :)

[Shaman]

Long Live the......???

Gladiator?
Legionnaire?
Berserker?
Pugilist?
Henchman?

[Megabyte]

I kinda liked the soldier name. Just some simple veteran soldier. Thats a story enough for it. A knight that went several campaigns.

If something more inventive had to be made...I'd go with Legionairre or even Calvary. Something that implies human melee fighter, but bigger than ur basic infantry.

[Megabyte]

*tearful eye*

ahh, the memories, I still like this unit idea
and its nice to remember I could still argue then

[The Exile]

Ooh, imagine playing a witch bomb with this! :p

Nice necro, Mega. Reeeeeal nice. :rolleyes:

[Ahonuss]

I think its a good idea,but ppl would probably rather use 2 knights instead...;)

[Megabyte]

I think its a good idea,but ppl would probably rather use 2 knights instead...;)

3 knights, plus this, would be even better, no?

the idea is to use it in conjunction with similar units. Just as the dragon is complimented with the DSM, this would compliment ur other melees.

edit: reading through a lot these unit ideas, it seems the 2 main concepts is to either create something totally different which would alter the dynamics of the game, or to create something that basically replace a single unit on a setup type that is commonplace already. What's with that?

I like a middle ground concept. Ideas that stick within the concept and gameplay ideas that are already in there (to some extent), but add new dimensions too it. This unit is a good example. It's different, but fits in with other units already made. You could find a use for it in a variety of setups that already exist, and make new ones based around it (c'mon, 3 knights, plus assassing, plus muddy, plus this = 6 units of melee power..thats pretty pwning).

Get it? Stuff that's new and different, but won't change the game so much that the strategy basically has to be completely rethought.

[doubledown]

reading through a lot these unit ideas, it seems the 2 main concepts is to either create something totally different which would alter the dynamics of the game, or to create something that basically replace a single unit on a setup type that is commonplace already. What's with that?

I like a middle ground concept. Ideas that stick within the concept and gameplay ideas that are already in there (to some extent), but add new dimensions too it. This unit is a good example. It's different, but fits in with other units already made. You could find a use for it in a variety of setups that already exist, and make new ones based around it (c'mon, 3 knights, plus assassing, plus muddy, plus this = 6 units of melee power..thats pretty pwning).

Get it? Stuff that's new and different, but won't change the game so much that the strategy basically has to be completely rethought.


I think you said it best here Mega. any new unit should not significantly alter the game itself, while it can't just replace an existing unit either.