The grey-owning formation

[Excession]

From what I can tell, there is pathetically little that any grey can do against the standard high-level gold formation.

That is :
Cleric in back corner, with ward protecting corner (usually lightning)
Dragon and 2 scouts
3 knights
1 frostie

Dragon and scouts slaughter any magic users that approach, and frostie cripples any melee assault. If you hang back, the scouts and dragon just gradually chew through your army, getting healed periodically (no chance to kill).

Barrier/enchantress might possibly work, although with 2 scouts out there it wouldn't be easy. Alternatively you might be able to do something with some nice drops.

Otherwise there is pretty much sweet f'all a grey can do against this. Agreed?

[Eldar[TN]]

Originally posted by Excession
From what I can tell, there is pathetically little that any grey can do against the standard high-level gold formation.

That is :
Cleric in back corner, with ward protecting corner (usually lightning)
Dragon and 2 scouts
3 knights
1 frostie

Dragon and scouts slaughter any magic users that approach, and frostie cripples any melee assault. If you hang back, the scouts and dragon just gradually chew through your army, getting healed periodically (no chance to kill).

Barrier/enchantress might possibly work, although with 2 scouts out there it wouldn't be easy. Alternatively you might be able to do something with some nice drops.

Otherwise there is pretty much sweet f'all a grey can do against this. Agreed?

A well done line rush can crush almost any formation including that one.

[Hammy]

"From what I can tell, there is pathetically little that any grey can do against the standard high-level gold formation."



I managed to beat a guy with a dragon. he had a 70-10 record too.

[Excession]

Eldar - pfft, why don't you try it on say, danoodle. You'll get whupped, because that formation can deal massive amounts of constant damage with ward, unmoving dragon, and knights/scouts that always hit your blocking units courtesey of mr. frostie.

Hammy - I've thrashed a lot of golds with dragons. It's the setup which is hard to beat, not the unit.

[Eldar[TN]]

Originally posted by Excession
Eldar - pfft, why don't you try it on say, danoodle. You'll get whupped, because that formation can deal massive amounts of constant damage with ward, unmoving dragon, and knights/scouts that always hit your blocking units courtesey of mr. frostie.

Hammy - I've thrashed a lot of golds with dragons. It's the setup which is hard to beat, not the unit.

o0

[Excession]

"Oo" doesn't count as a logical rebuttal.

The fact remains that dual scouts protected by two turrets (dragon + lightning) will just shred any grey army not specifically developed against that formation (and even then...).

[gekigarion]

Originally posted by Excession
Eldar - pfft, why don't you try it on say, danoodle. You'll get whupped, because that formation can deal massive amounts of constant damage with ward, unmoving dragon, and knights/scouts that always hit your blocking units courtesey of mr. frostie.

Hammy - I've thrashed a lot of golds with dragons. It's the setup which is hard to beat, not the unit.

Actually, I've almost beaten danoodle once, not to mention I only fought him once and that he was the first Gold I fought. Just have a correct mix of units. Your lightning ward in the front throws a wrench if he was planning to rush you with ANY mage, and his dragon may be powerful, but it's not as bad as two units attacking you.

Aim for the scouts first. I killed danoodle's first in two turns, and he had an epic battle with my assassin (Who's alone on the left side) with his other Scout. A barrier ward butts into plans when they are about to kill somebody, and NEVER underestimate your knight's power. The dragon is slow, very slow. A healing cleric cannot keep up with the onslaguth of two knights against a dragon, and witches die easily against your scout.

And the enchantress, my friends, is your magic number. It doesn't matter if you tie up only the dragon, as it equals two units, you just tied up two units. Keep the dragon (And possibly any knights or the like unlucky enough to be there) away, and don't worry about his cleric. As long as you don't use pyromancers, clerics usually can't do much at all to counter against a knight's, a lightning ward's, or a witch's attack.

I've beaten multiple gold accounts, even those with over 100 wins and only 20 losses. The units are good, but overall, this game is pretty balanced. So he has a dragon. You have either a witch and a dragon, an enchantress and a cleric, etc. in place of a dragon. He has two scouts? Get an early offense on them, and remember not to be afraid to sacrifice your units.

Play this like chess. Don't go all offensive or go all defensive, put in a nice mix of both. Know when to attack, and when to retreat. Know when to make sacrifices. Know how to use each unit to it's maximum potential.

[Eldar[TN]]

Originally posted by Excession
"Oo" doesn't count as a logical rebuttal.

The fact remains that dual scouts protected by two turrets (dragon + lightning) will just shred any grey army not specifically developed against that formation (and even then...).

The Oo refers to when we played o0 and its o0 not Oo

Learn the diffrence, Mr. Tron.

Anyway, the formation might be slightly stronger than I thought but its far, far from invincible.

[Excession]

Geki - I've beaten every gold I've faced who didn't use the formation I mentioned, including golds with records such as you describe.

"Aim for the scouts first" - pretty hard to do when they're just taking pot-shots at your mages from 6 squares. And if you'd read my description of the formation, no mage is required, and it certainly wouldn't be rushed.

The dragon is slow, very slow. A healing cleric cannot keep up with the onslaguth of two knights against a dragon, and witches die easily against your scout.

The dragon stays under cover of its lightning ward, and in combination will tear apart knights with the frostie behind. As I mentioned previously no mages are required, and your spellcasters die even faster against his 2 scouts.

Enchantress won't keep a dragon frozen when two scouts are hitting it. Nor is it likely that it would get frozen in the first place.

Eldar - "The Oo refers to when we played o0 and its o0 not Oo" Then it's meaningless because your lightning ward didn't come into play. You also got one of your turrets (dragon) killed because it wasn't being used like a turret, as it should be. And lined your scouts up for my witch.

[gekigarion]

Those two scouts hitting the enchantress first should be dead by the time you use her. You never, EVER use the enchantress unless the game has been going on for at least 13 turns, unless the enemy has some extremely strange setup that's perfect for her right away.

If the dragon is cowering behind a lightning ward, you STAY ON DEFENSE. They want to play defensive, two can play that game. If his dragon decides to take potshots at say, your lightning ward, a barrier ward will fix that. And if his dragon tries to close in, he can't run away until a short while.

You have a scout. As long as you attack and don't move with it, you only have to wait one turn between attacks. The cleric has to wait for 3.

I've beaten many gold accounts with records such as 104 wins - 20 losses. It's not that much. Trust me. You have to know how to use your units.

[Excession]

Geki - It's obvious you've never encountered this strategy. How exactly do you kill two scouts sitting next to their defensive formation (one on either side)? Basically, you can't, because his range (double scout and dragon) owns your range (mages + scout).

You have a scout. As long as you attack and don't move with it, you only have to wait one turn between attacks. The cleric has to wait for 3.

And he has 2 scouts, same rules apply. He has no soft targets - dragon is 40% block, scouts 60% - whereas you do (mages).

So he's "scouting" you every turn, and you're scouting him every other turn. And his scouts have a greater opportunity to do damage due to your soft targets - he can heal faster than you can do damage with 1 scout (due to block), whereas you cannot heal faster than his dual scouts.

I've beaten many gold accounts with records such as 104 wins - 20 losses. It's not that much. Trust me. You have to know how to use your units.

And as I've said before, this is a null point because I too have beaten golds with such records (and better records). And of course, I know how to use my units (which is why I've only ever been beaten by one grey, when I swapped servers and forgot to setup a halfway decent formation).

[Radiantguy99]

And it's quite obvious that you are just jealous. I suggest you remove whatever is up your ass and instead of going on and on about how this formation is "unbeatable" you figure out how to beat it. There's counters for everything. Grow up.

[Excession]

Radiant - I'm going to go out of my way to help you with your comprehension problems.

Firstly, look up the word "jealous" in the dictionary.

Secondly, I've described why it is extremely hard for a grey army to beat (without unit drops).

Saying that there are counters for everything just shows that you're clueless - when the enemy has access to a wider range of units, there is not necessarily a counter since you can't even mirror their formation.

I think it's fine that golds have a better range of troops than greys. However, I initially posted this because I was annoyed at the futility of fighting this particular formation - a warning to greys if you will.

[Radiantguy99]

However, in every single post that you have made you have reiterated that "OMFG LOOK AT THIS FORMATION ITS THE GAWD FORMATION". That is what I get when I read your post.

Pyro's will own that person along with a DMW. Put those behind a few knights and he'll be forced to attack you. This game isn't about the units, it's all about the strategy. If you lack the ability to see the inherent flaws in the strategy this person has used against you, then that is your problem. It is a very easy strategy to counter.

So as I said before, stop saying that this formation that is being used is overpowered/rigged/god/hard. What it comes down to is tactics, obviously you dont' understand that.

I will not be replying again if all you do is claim NO NO NO NO NO YOUR LYING. Put some details in, along with reasons for it instead of just defending your claim with NO

[gekigarion]

Originally posted by Excession
Geki - It's obvious you've never encountered this strategy. How exactly do you kill two scouts sitting next to their defensive formation (one on either side)? Basically, you can't, because his range (double scout and dragon) owns your range (mages + scout). And he has 2 scouts, same rules apply. He has no soft targets - dragon is 40% block, scouts 60% - whereas you do (mages).

So he's "scouting" you every turn, and you're scouting him every other turn. And his scouts have a greater opportunity to do damage due to your soft targets - he can heal faster than you can do damage with 1 scout (due to block), whereas you cannot heal faster than his dual scouts. And as I've said before, this is a null point because I too have beaten golds with such records (and better records). And of course, I know how to use my units (which is why I've only ever been beaten by one grey, when I swapped servers and forgot to setup a halfway decent formation).

Well actually, I have encountered a strategy (Not the exact, but very similar).

The trick is, as I've said, to play defensive as well. If he doesn't want to attack, and you don't, you can call it a draw. If he plays defensive, stick your knights in the front so that his scouts can only shoot at their fronts as well. Then, when he decides to go on the offense, THAT's when your Scout becomes better. If he goes on offense, rush his scouts. The field is not large at all, and if you knight rush any scout, they're dead meat unless your opponent happens to be very lucky. Their blocking is decent, but not stupendous.

I know that saying I've beaten many gold accounts is a null point, I'm just pointing that out as a "n00b-proof label" on myself so that people on the forums (Like most game forums) can't use the old "Your a n00b so stfu" as a counter. That's all. It's not aimed toward you, don't worry.

I also only have one mage in my party. It's the witch. I never use pyromancers against golds, because if they have formations such as the ones you've stated, you need focused damage, not spread damage. You said his dragon has 40% block? That's not a lot, at all, consider that Scouts can hit from the side really easily (A diagonal angle towards the front counts as a side hit, and a diagonal angle towards the back counts as a back attack)

And correction: The scout cannot move until THREE turns after he shoots. It says 2 turn recovery, so you:

Turn 1: Shoot.
Turn 2: After this ends, it says "Wait one more turn."
Turn 3: After this ends, your Scout can move again.
Turn 4: NOW your Scout can shoot.

You know what that means? That means he CANNOT shoot every turn. What you do is:

Get in defensive formation, Knights facing forward. Your Scout pokes his head out and shoots, and then your opponent's Scouts will try to shoot him. If you don't like that, then I suggest putting a Barrier on your Scout the next turn.